Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => Willys Forum => Topic started by: MarkH on December 19, 2016, 09:16:10 PM
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Just read an informative thread on this in the Darrin forum.
Same question here, what's engine color, black & natural on an Aero 161 F-head?
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I've never figured that out either :) My current car is as bone stock as it could be. On it, the block seems to be natural.
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I'll be digging into my engine/trans/overdrive soon and may find more traces of paint on rusty parts or under the dirt/grease crust. Gray is my engine color & seems to be on other engine block parts I have except for the cylinder head from Brazil which is a nice green color.
I found this post from quite a while back by Aeroman that's very similar to the Darrin post but not as extensive, and wonder if the Darrin & Aero power trains were painted the same in their respective colors:
Peripherals: Black for valve cover, starter, generator, air cleaner.
Natural metal: distributor, carburetor, exhaust manifold.
Engine color: timing cover, oil pan, bell housing, crankshaft pulley, harmonic balancer.
I can add that my throttle linkage is black.
Speaking of black, some of what I've found under hood is gloss and some semi/satin.
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My 51 Jeepster with the f-head 6 had a grey engine block. I've seen them black as well. My 54 Aero Eagle Custom with the 226 had a silver painted block.
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Our '55 Willys Custom 226 engine is painted silver.
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Silver paint on the 54 Willys Aero Eagle Custom. I basically painted it like an engine plant would without any of the assembly plant applied brackets and accessories. Most of those were chassis black, coil bracket was zinc plated. The vertical throttle bracket and rod bellcrank were painted black as an assembly.
These are the details that should be readily available on published judging guidelines.
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About 30 years ago I had the privilege of attending a KF retirees luncheon. I sat with a group of guys whose job it was to assemble the drivetrain for KF vehicles. I also spoke at length with several gents who did the under hood work - dropping the engine in place and bolting down the dog house. I learned a lot and immediately started detailing my cars to match what they told me. Given that this was many years ago, quite a few cars still had their original paint and components so it was easy to see how what they said lined up with what I found.
Fast forward to several years ago at a national meet. I had my car there and several attendees wanted to know how I knew the correct colors and components on a car. I explained my meeting with the KF retirees and before long I was conducting a parking lot clinic with a group of about a dozen members. I discussed in detail the assembly process and how things were painted, when components were gathered for an assembly, and when they met the chassis/body. Someone at the meet took notes and said they would publish them - I've yet to see them in print.
I have my Darrin engine compartment torn down at the moment. Perhaps this would be a good time to start documenting the process as I paint and reassemble everything. I think I see a Youtube video in my future!
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When my dad purchased the '51 Kaiser I have, it came with spare engine that was pulled from a Willys in 1960. The head said "Willys Hurricane" on it. I believe this is the original color in this picture. Looks like silver/light gray???
(https://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3cf20b3127ccef4d7b70df40700000030O01SatmLdmyB7efAA/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00203070160520131102033743785.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
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These engine color details for all K-F and Willys products would be great information for the new judging guidelines!
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My 1955 Bermuda is all original and the 226 is silver.
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Here's a shot of a 161 F-head lifter cover I cleaned & sent to TCP Global for color matching. This is a '52 engine, another '52 cylinder head and my '54 (leftover '53) F-head engine are the same color.
The right half of the cover has some baked in oil staining, left side is the right color. I'd have described this as more of a cream color than gray but the book says gray.
From the looks of the splotch on top of the quart of enamel, TCP did a nice job matching it.
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Mark:
F-head colors:
COLOR - BLOCK: Blue – low altitude export (below 5000 ft)
Lt Gray - high alt export & low alt domestic
Yellow - high alt domestic
COLOR – CYLINDER HEAD: Blue – low alt export
Black - high alt export & low alt domestic
Yellow - high alt domestic
1952 & 1953 only
1954 & 1955 not documented
COLOR – PERIPHERALS: Black – valve cover, starter, generator, air cleaner
Natural metal – distributor, carburetor, exhaust manifold
Engine color - timing cover, oil pan, bell housing, crankshaft pulley, harmonic balancer
Can't remember where I got this info from, either Service Standards manual or a service bulletin or the parts manual or a supplement.
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Just power washed 3 transmissions & my still assembled '54 bell housing & trans. Cast bell housing is gray engine color with a stamped inspection plate, black. Transmission ('s) castings definitely not engine color, seem to be either natural or a thin coating of black in places. Rubbed one of the black places with an alcohol soaked shop towel until it wouldn't pick up anymore color, then used an acetone soaked shop towel which stripped the black right off, just like other original black painted pieces. Stamped transmission inspection plates held much more paint, definitely black.
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So what will your final colors be ? Looking forward to seeing the assembled engine :)
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Going with original colors as in Aeroman's post above as well as black inspection plates.. Already have color matched gray engine paint.
At this point I'll probably try a couple more solvents to see if I can confirm some black paint on the transmission, probably going to end up going black anyway but it would be nice to know for sure.
One thing for sure, if any were painted assembled to the bell housing, they lost every trace of gray from the mating joint back while the bell housing retained complete coverage.
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Borg Warner shipped their transmissions in black paint. KF then overpainted to the proper color. I'm not sure how Willys painted them...they may have left them black.
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Borg Warner shipped their transmissions in black paint. KF then overpainted to the proper color. I'm not sure how Willys painted them...they may have left them black.
That makes sense from what I've seen on these transmissions. I didn't solvent wash any other black spots today but thinking about it, couldn't figure out a logical way to paint the cases sans the black top plate without coating the gears.
Still seems odd the stamped bell housing inspection plate is black but I don't see even a trace of gray overspray on it.
Something else that was painted black was the stamped inspection plate in the floor board tunnel. Several underhood stampings are black too. Maybe the assorted small stampings were made in the same dept?
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A few additions to the list.
Engine color: Generator brackets.
Satin Black: Heater core box.
Satin Black/Natural: Heater box mounted hose retainer/guide, 1 satin black, 1 natural (haven't sorted that out)
Gloss Black: Fresh air intake grill bezels & screens, passenger side firewall air intake, hinge adjusting access plates, hinge brackets.
Went with gloss for battery tray, rocker cover & oil filler cap since all seemed to clean up slicker than the NOS heater box.
Still need to resolve radiator brace & horns but first glance looks like gloss.
Radiator, generator, starter might be satin, haven't tackled air cleaner yet.
Front spring retainers were gloss black inside, NOS springs red oxide, NOS trunnions dull satin black, cross tube gloss black, NOS control arms natural. Some traces of black on other steering parts. Used gloss on everything.
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While disassembling & cleaning my original starter I discovered a curiosity.
The mounting flange and part of the main body had engine paint on it, as it it were mounted first then got some over spray on it as the engine was painted.
Also, Rustoleum "Putty Satin" is strikingly close to the '52 valve cover I had color matched. I used that on my crankshaft pulley with clear over it and I don't anyone would notice the difference unless I pointed it out.
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I've never figured that out either :) My current car is as bone stock as it could be. On it, the block seems to be natural.
My original 1952, purchased new by my grandfather, is natural on the block and head.
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Anyone know what color the bolt heads should be fastening the throttle bell crank onto a 161 F-head?
Block color or black like the bell crank?
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Wanted to finish the front pulley and harmonic balancer myself rather than the paint shop. Here's a photo of the pulley in Rustoleum #7772 Putty Satin with clear gloss over it. Not a perfect match or quite as glossy as the acrylic enamel with hardener, but pretty close.
I've seen a slightly more gray color on another original engine.
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About the bell crank bolts, they should be block color.
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One difference my engine had from the list is that when I cleaned the distributor the body was painted black and the hold down tab chromed.
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I’m almost certain Delco distributor bodies were always painted semi gloss black when installed in a KF or W vehicle. They were installed after the engine was painted.
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I’m almost certain Delco distributor bodies were always painted semi gloss black when installed in a KF or W vehicle. They were installed after the engine was painted.
Mine is an AutoLite, also semi gloss without any overspray.
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Right! I had Darrin on the brain...they used Delco electrics.