Messages

1

Cars For Sale & Wanted / Re: Anyone looking for a 49 Frazer in decent shape...

« on: March 16, 2020, 08:44:34 PM »

I used to stop by Country Classics once a year for many years on road trips but haven’t been there since 2018. That Frazer has been there a while so I would think they would be willing to move it by now. I wasn’t looking for a project so I passed on it. But it is NOT a 1949 Frazer, it’s a 1947. Country Classics has a lot of cars and always something interesting. I always enjoy stopping there.

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Cars For Sale & Wanted / Re: Nice Looking 1953 Aero Ace For Sale

« on: March 15, 2020, 10:30:27 PM »

Thanks. Very informative.

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Cars For Sale & Wanted / Re: Nice Looking 1953 Aero Ace For Sale

« on: March 14, 2020, 02:50:05 PM »

Nice looking Willys. Says overdrive not working. How difficult is that to fix or get parts for?

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Cars For Sale & Wanted / Re: 51 6 cylinder Henry J up for auction on Ebay...

« on: February 24, 2020, 11:00:00 PM »

The ebay listing says 134 cu in engine but picture shows a 6 cyl which I thought was 161 cu in? I am not near where I can look that up. Am I wrong?

5

Kaiser Forum / Re: Kaiser Traveler Prototype??

« on: December 14, 2019, 07:11:57 PM »

Thanks for posting these pictures. It is interesting to see that the grille used on this prototype is a Frazer, not a Kaiser.

6

General Discussion / Re: Great News! Car & Driver Cites Kaiser Dragon as 1 of 10 Favorite Cars @ Concours

« on: July 30, 2019, 09:30:32 PM »

Dang, missed the concourse this year. I only live about 2 hrs from it. Would like to have seen that Dragon. Great to see it was well received.

7

General Discussion / Re: KF for Driving to Meets

« on: June 11, 2019, 09:14:22 AM »

While this goes back awhile now, in 1998 I bought a beautifully restored and mechanically sound 1953 Kaiser Manhattan. I took very good care of it and drove it everywhere, to Northern Michigan, all over Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky and Michigan. I put over 16,000 miles on it and never had a problem. That same year I also bought a 1951 Frazer Manhattan 4 door HT. I kept that car even longer and put over 23,000 miles on it without any problems. Both cars were correctly maintained with their original spec. mechanicals. I mostly drove on secondary US and state highways just as the roads were when they were new cars. Occasionally I took Interstate highways when necessary. I think if one understands their KF vehicle, travels prepared for mechanical issues, and drives according to the vehicle’s limitations one can still enjoy going back in time to experience these cars as they were intended to be. But do not forget to take along a cell phone!

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General Discussion / Re: Quarterly

« on: April 27, 2019, 08:11:26 AM »

Yes, congrats. Both publications are well deserved to win such an award.

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Frazer Forum / Re: Frazer Boys in a Long Sleep?

« on: February 28, 2019, 07:55:52 PM »

Sounds great. Keep us posted and include pictures if possible.

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Frazer Forum / Re: Frazer Boys in a Long Sleep?

« on: February 11, 2019, 10:35:26 PM »

I am like dragondust in that I too look for interesting tidbits on Frazers. Currently I don’t have a KF car, but I really enjoyed my 1951 Frazer Manhattan hardtop for years. It was a great road car that I drove long distances. I sometimes feel the first gen KF cars are under appreciated. I feel they had fine build quality. My Frazer’s luxury and ride engineering was comparable to a 1953 Chrysler Imperial that my brother and I owned years ago. I also enjoyed my 1951 Kaiser Golden Dragon and my 1953 Kaiser Manhattan but my 1951 Frazer Manhattan hardtop was in a class by itself.

11

General Discussion / Re: Barbara Mueller

« on: January 23, 2019, 08:54:59 PM »

Wishing Barbara a speedy recovery.

12

Judging & Factory Correct Discussions / Re: To judge our cars or not.

« on: December 31, 2018, 02:30:48 PM »

Likewise inevitably subjective for horse shows for over 2 centuries. Having been involved with horses for 49 years, I have to say that the KFOCI nationals that I have attended demonstrate considerable pride of the car owners with a minimal sense of competitive spirit. Often owners are optimistic and helpful at least compared to some horse shows. Just human nature I guess.

13

Virginians, Hardtops, Convertibles, & Dragons / Re: Question about 49-50 Kaiser Virginians vs. 1951 Frazer Manhattan hardtops

« on: November 24, 2018, 07:50:17 PM »

According to the Kaiser-Frazer Operating Report for the 3 months ending March 31, 1950, Kaiser-Frazer built 980 Virginians during the 1949-50 model run, this included 1 Virginian built in Jasnuary 1950.   As of 3/31/50, 874 of these were sold & only 2 were classed as new, undriven, unsold cars in inventory.  This totals 875 new cars soid to dealers and distributors or available for sale.  This leaves 115 finished cars.

Five cars were on the books as assigned to the Experimental Engineering department of Kaiser-Frazer, 45 were assigned to Kaiser-Frazer Sales Corporation for field uses (used by people in the various sales offices across the country), and another 45 were available as "executive driven" cars for resale through the By-Products Store (surplus materials/vehicles store at Willow Run).  This announts for another 95 cars.  Kaiser-Frazer Export Corporation still had one for its uses outside the 48 states.  There were also a total of 8 cars assigned to other K-F departments at Willow Run or available for resale after use by the same other "executive driven" uses.  This comes to 104 vehicles.  Adding the two "legally new" cars in inventory comes to 106 vehicles. 

The report also states (with no specific detail noted) that 1 Virginian was re-purchased from a terminated distributorship during the first quarter.  That car plus the 105 other cars listed previously accounts for the difference between cars built and cars sold to dealers or distributors.  In other words, every car built is accounted for.  None were turned into 1951 Frazer Hardtops. 

The 1951 Frazer Manhattan Hardtops were made from either body stampings run through body fabrication with different quarter panels and some other minor revisions or bodies built up butg not put on chassis in the body bank.  It cost $$$ to "modify" the built up cars but it was cheaper than selling the material for scrap or building out more 1950 Virginians that would never be saleable without substantial price cuts.

Thanks Jack for this detailed research in answer to my original questions. This is much appreciated. Years ago at a car show some gentleman, while admiring my 1951 Frazer Manhattan 4 door hardtop, told me that all 1951 Frazer Manhattan 4 door hardtops were originally 1949-50 Kaiser Virginians that were left over. I did not pay it much attention as I really enjoyed my Frazer and drove it everywhere. Then later I was talking to someone else regarding my curiosity as to what the "Milestone Society" is. They explained it to me, and then indicated that my 1953 Kaiser Manhattan (and I found out later my 1951 Kaiser Golden Dragon) was recognized by the Milestone Society, but he said my 1951 Frazer 4 door hardtop was not recognized. While it seemed odd to me that the most luxurious and unique 4 door hardtop Frazer (and the rarest of my cars) was not recognized, it really was no big deal to me as I never brought my cars to shows for trophies or recognition, only to celebrate their place in history with pride. He explained to me that my 1951 Frazer 4 door hardtop was not recognized by the Milestone Society because it was built from re-serialed leftover Kaiser cars. However, if I understand your research correctly it must have been a myth that all 1951 Frazer Manhattan 4 door hardtops were made from left over 1949-59 Kaiser Virginians. Thanks again.

14

Virginians, Hardtops, Convertibles, & Dragons / Re: Question about 49-50 Kaiser Virginians vs. 1951 Frazer Manhattan hardtops

« on: November 24, 2018, 07:35:09 PM »

A 4 door hardtop cannot be made from a 4 door sedan. They are similar but different floor pans to start. The factory would not disassemble one vehicle to make it into another vehicle because it is not cost effective. The 49 -50 Kaiser chassis is different from the 51Frazer chassis. The engines have different number stampings. As I stated before, the 1951 Frazer 4 door sedan was made from leftover body stampings from 1950 Kaiser and Frazer body stampings not built bodies. The same would go for the 4 door hardtops.

According to Richard Longworth's book it is indicated that the basis for all the 4 door convertibles and 4 door hardtops was the 4 door sedan, the only body style available for such custom work. The convertibles used a reinforced X frame for stability while the 4 door hardtops used the 4 door sedan's ladder frame since the roof provided reinforcement and Longworth indicated that the "crease lines" stamped into the hardtops, resembling the bows of convertibles, also added strength. Of course there were other reinforcements as well. Having owned a Frazer 4 door hardtop I can say it was a very comfortable, smooth, quite driving car. But I get your point of cost issues and using up all available inventory. My question is more about exploring whether it is a myth that all 51 Frazer Hardtops were originally 49-50 Kaiser Virginians.

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Virginians, Hardtops, Convertibles, & Dragons / Re: Question about 49-50 Kaiser Virginians vs. 1951 Frazer Manhattan hardtops

« on: November 23, 2018, 08:48:51 AM »

Sorry if my question sounded confusing. If all 1951 Frazer Manhattan 4 door hardtops were made from 1949-50 KAISER Virginians, then the KAISER dashboards would have to be changed to FRAZER dashboards which indeed was the case. Of course, I realize the structural difference between the sedans and the hardtops regardless of whether Kaiser or Frazer, and all 4 door hardtops regardless of marque were made from 4 door sedans, but my main question was were ALL 1951 Frazer Manhattan 4 door hardtops made only from 1949-59 Kaiser Virginian 4 door hardtops or could possibly some of the 1951 Frazer Manhattan 4 door hardtops be actually made from left over FRAZER sedans instead of KAISER Virginians? Is there indisputable evidence that all 1951 Frazer Manhattan 4 door hardtops were made only from 1949-50 KAISER Virginians?