JUDGING STANDARDS

[Terry T]

I suggest that this Forum has a new tab--JUDGING STANDARDS...that posts the detailed standards for each model.

That way everyone is on the same page for "correctness"

[MarkH]

Yes, that would be very useful since factory build standards I've seen are scattered in various threads that would require searching out. Publicly posted standards would also eliminate judging ambiguities.

[morgan6344]

Agree whole heartedly! Thanks

[G.B. (All Vinyl Dragon)]

Yes, Good Idea. I know some have changed ? We need to keep as Original as Possible. But Safety add ons OK. But have a Good Standard as Well so on the Same Page.

[Terry T]

The club has not had detailed judging standards.
Without detail, judging consistency cannot be attained.

40 years ago this was complained about in the Darrin Newslettters, with examples of 20 point differences in the same cars without anything be done to them.

Char Dayton worked tirelessly on the Darrin standards but many have not seen them.  I provided them in my past Newsletter but new owners come about frequently.

Need to make "stuff" public.

[joefrazer]

As I’ve said repeatedly, put proprietary information such as judging standards in the members only section on the club’s website.

[Terry T]

Char has Darrin Standards but they were not used at the most recent National.

[MarkH]

One of the problems that exist with Darrin judging seems to be the number of running changes made to the cars during their production run...…………………..

This will also need to be addressed for the Aero. During my restoration, and forum discussions, a number of changes documented and not have turned up. Just the discussion on underbody paint versus primer AND colors turned up quite a variety of differences, every one likely factory original. Subjects like that would need a very general standard, maybe coated versus not coated. Decisions would also need to be agreed on just how far to go judging details, even bolt head stampings changed from the early to late model Aero.

My impression of my (originally low mileage) leftover '53/'54 Lark is that they grabbed whatever was in reach when it went down the line. I think it's part Falcon, Lark, 675 and 685...……….. how the heck do you judge that?

At a certain point, separating a reasonably achievable list of judging standards from the list of the variety of factory build standards would likely keep it more enjoyable.

Keeping this list as members only would be a good idea too.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

The best way to judge is to either find a Willys Motors Document identifying the transition 53/54 type Aeros and what parts would go into them (such as the parts book listings)  or look at a number of surviving cars and see what "common threads" run through them and what owners say about things that vary between cars.  From that, a concensus can be drawn as to what "odd" or "unusual" things can be identified.

It's too bad that a lot of that stuff got lost at the factory level between 1970 and 1987.

[hj-etx]

Actually most people who bring their cars to be judged don't have much knowledge of what the judges are looking for. Perhaps invite or even REQUIRE people with cars to be judged to sit in with the regular judges instructional meeting?
My years of judging instructed me on what to look for in a car.
I remember more than 1 occasion when when a person showed up with a car on a trailer and said, "Hurry up and judge it. I have to be somewhere."

[Dragon]

I think first timers should be able to go through judging with the Judge.  Then everything correct and wrong could be explained.  I can remember one of the first times I got judged, a knowledgeable member came over and explained a lot of wrong things to me.  That helped me tremendously in the future.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Any member has been invited in the past to the Judges Meeting before judging takes place.   The evaluation sheet showing strengths and weaknesses on a particular makes gives owners what is good and needs improvement on their cars.  I have REPEATEDLY stressed the importance of having a "Book" about your car with copies of various factory materials to support correctness for the vehicle.  Judges are only human and sometimes need some help to resolve questions.  It is up to the owner to provide such information and things like "the person who sold me the car said it was all original" is by itself worthless information.  I know as over the years I have been involved in working out issues after judging.

[Bvanhook]

I have a question. I'm on my way to restore a 1948 frazer, now doing research it's only a 485 but alot of the features are Manhattan.  Is it possible that the original owner ordered a custom version of the frazer from the factory?

[Gordie]

In the end of the 1948 production Kaiser found that they had a lot of Manhattan and Kaiser Custom upholstery left over and used much of it during production of the regular Kaisers and Frazers.  What does it say about the upholstery in your car on the firewall tag that lists all of the options on your car.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

In June of 1948, a memo went out to Kaiser-Frazer dealers about a "modification" made to the interiors of 1948 K481 Specials.  The document dated June 8th said that approximately 14,000 model K481 Kaiser Specials were produced with the door trim panels and floor carpets of the K482 Kaiser Custom.  The colors on the panels and carpets were either Blue Gray, Green Heather or Rose Heather.  As there were mo upholstery books in dealer or distributor hands back then, no official factory samples are known to exist.  On the door panels, carpet was used for the kick pad at the bottom of the panel.  There was no price difference between the regular K481 interior items but the dealers needed to record serial numbers or body numbers of any from the batch they sold for future reference if replacements are needed at some future point.

I know of no similar memo relative to use of Manhattan surplus itemns on regular Frazers in the 1948 model year.