Author Topic: Radio Rebuild - Field Coil to PM Speaker  (Read 1419 times)

jneely

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
    • Email
Radio Rebuild - Field Coil to PM Speaker
« on: April 20, 2020, 05:30:40 PM »
Any folks have experience with converting original AM tube radio for modern permanent magnet speaker? Looks like the modification is as simple as omitting the connection from spark plate to field coil, but looking to make sure I'm not missing anything. Looking at the Motorola WS2C from a Willys, it appears that the field coil is not the high voltage design that I am used to seeing in old in-home tube radio sets. It appears this design runs the field coil on 6V DC input.

Any help appreciated.
LM16094
Willys Aero-Eagles
And a few old Fords

konrad

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 385
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Radio Rebuild - Field Coil to PM Speaker
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2020, 12:34:44 PM »
PM forum member Fid...he rebuilds these radios.
51 Kaiser Deluxe

Fid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3854
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Radio Rebuild - Field Coil to PM Speaker
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2020, 01:52:17 PM »
I saw this post but I'm not sure I understand what is being asked.

Quote
converting original AM tube radio for modern permanent magnet speaker?
All the KF factory radios have a permanent magnet speaker as do most models of that era but I have not worked on a Willys radio.

Quote
Looks like the modification is as simple as omitting the connection from spark plate to field coil

Not sure what that means as there are several spark plates within the radios and "field coil" could refer to a number of components.
My guess is, some of these old vacuum tube radios had a speaker which has a transformer on it.   The Willys cars may be that way. If that's the case then it's not as simple as replacing the speaker as the transformer is part of the output circuit.

More information may help.
1953 Henry J Corsair Deluxe
Edgar Kaiser's custom 1951 Henry J
1951 Kaiser Special
1952 Allstate Deluxe

Need your classic car radio repaired? I repair vacuum tube radios

jneely

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Radio Rebuild - Field Coil to PM Speaker
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2020, 06:16:12 PM »
Apologies, I was of the impression that it was posted on Circle KF, but seems that's not the case. Reference attached.

Willys is unique, then, with a field coil speaker. 3.2 ohm, 6x9. The speaker is not a part of the power supply circuit - there is a separate (normal) choke. I've never seen one like this.

LM16094
Willys Aero-Eagles
And a few old Fords

Fid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3854
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Radio Rebuild - Field Coil to PM Speaker
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2020, 07:34:11 PM »
Good info.  The field coil looks like it's for noise suppression as the grn and blk wires go straight to the speaker.  It probably could be eliminated.

The Allstate radios are actually in 3 parts or modules:  The tuning / amplifier section, the power section and the speaker section. The speaker section also includes the audio output transformer (T3 in the schematic you attached) and that section is often missing as is the case with this one -

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Allstate-Car-Radio-528-6295-7-6-Volt-circa-1950-Chevy-Dodge-Ford-Desoto-Chrys/383509538660?hash=item594af32764:g:nDgAAOSwLNtem2bl

I would like to snap one up for my Allstate but this one is missing the speaker section and I doubt I'd ever find that part. 
1953 Henry J Corsair Deluxe
Edgar Kaiser's custom 1951 Henry J
1951 Kaiser Special
1952 Allstate Deluxe

Need your classic car radio repaired? I repair vacuum tube radios

jneely

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Radio Rebuild - Field Coil to PM Speaker
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2020, 10:47:41 PM »
Thank you. Small single ended output transformers are readily available and inexpensive. Not sure the Allstate schematic, and if you have an existing speaker impedance you need to accommodate, but here's a decent example under $20. 6AQ5 or 6V6 and an 8 ohm speaker

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/transformer-output-8-w-single-ended
LM16094
Willys Aero-Eagles
And a few old Fords

G.B. (All Vinyl Dragon)

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 670
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Radio Rebuild - Field Coil to PM Speaker
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2020, 09:22:06 AM »
Apologies, I was of the impression that it was posted on Circle KF, but seems that's not the case. Reference attached.

Willys is unique, then, with a field coil speaker. 3.2 ohm, 6x9. The speaker is not a part of the power supply circuit - there is a separate (normal) choke. I've never seen one like this.

Note: Aviation Speakers or was 3-4 Ohm. It’s been Years that I have Replaced one. Front speaker on Kaisers don’t bake in the Sun. Back Speaker can get Baked though. Back Speaker not a field coil speaker.
Field Coil still available ?
Research on All Vinyl Dragons & Dragon List.
G.B. Bonham LM  K.F.O.C. Club.
Also: Vintage Electronics, TV, Stereo, Radio, & Broadcasting.
Looking for Kaye Halbert TV, 27 inch screen mid 50's
made in Culver City, Calif.

jneely

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Radio Rebuild - Field Coil to PM Speaker
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2020, 09:38:27 AM »
I'm not aware of any new replacement field coil speakers being produced. That's why I am pursuing replacement with a modern permanent magnet driver. You may be able to find a working used or NOS field coil on Ebay or HAM radio swap meets, but I haven't come across a 6x9 example yet.
LM16094
Willys Aero-Eagles
And a few old Fords

konrad

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 385
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Radio Rebuild - Field Coil to PM Speaker
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2020, 10:34:36 AM »
Another option, check these guys out:

http://www.vintageautoradio.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54&Itemid=64

They can take your vintage 6 volt positive ground radio, convert it to am/fm with solid state components and additional inputs (hidden beneath or behind so it still appears original)...add new speakers and you're good to go.  There is a caveat though.  If you wish to have a 4 speaker system, a 6 volt system without an alternator can not keep up with that.  You will need an extra battery in the trunk to power it (recharging on trickle charger between uses) or only have a two speaker system.

However, when I spoke to the owner about whether a 3 speaker system would fly with this setup from the main battery, he seemed confident that it could.  Three speakers you say...what the hell you talkin' about pilgrim?

My idea was to mount two externally enclosed speakers on the package shelf (as I do not want to cut holes in the shelf for flush mount speakers) with a third in the front speaker grill.  The two rear speakers are hooked up as normal l/r to the speaker A outputs.  The front, center speaker is hooked up in what is known as a "Hafler Circuit"...the left and right positives of the speaker B channel are connected to this speaker, no negative involved.  Everything that is common between the two channels is out of phase and cancels itself out...all you are left with coming from the front speaker are the differences (example...guitar, bass and drums are common to both channels, they cancel out...sax in the left channel only, flute in the right channel only, that's all that is reproduced from that front/center speaker).

The Hafler Circuit has also been referred to as "the poor man's quad", since this setup adds an element of depth to the sound, like you would get from a quad system, though usually left and right are the front speakers and the center speaker is in the rear.  But, Vintage Audio can add a separate volume control (again, hidden underneath) for the B channel, allowing you to tailor the level from the front so it does not overpower the rear l/r channels.

For years I had my home stereo system hooked up like this, with the rear, single speaker on a separate amp so I could control its volume relative to the front speakers.  It does not cause issues or damage to the amp(s) or the speakers...and it is an option for a 6 volt positive ground system in one of these vehicles.

Hope this helps in giving you additional options going forward.  :)

Addendum...you can have 4 speakers in a hafler circuit...again, the positives from left and right go to the positive inputs of the two speakers, and a single line goes between the two negative poles of that speaker set.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 10:43:07 AM by konrad »
51 Kaiser Deluxe

jneely

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Radio Rebuild - Field Coil to PM Speaker
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2020, 12:03:58 PM »
Interesting. Sounds like a nice upgrade.

For me, I'm perfectly content with the old timey AM tube radio in mono. Aeros actually have existing holes on the package tray, at least for a center rear speaker, but I do not plan to use it on my car.
LM16094
Willys Aero-Eagles
And a few old Fords

MarkH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1083
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Radio Rebuild - Field Coil to PM Speaker
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2020, 06:42:59 PM »
Interesting. Sounds like a nice upgrade.

For me, I'm perfectly content with the old timey AM tube radio in mono. Aeros actually have existing holes on the package tray, at least for a center rear speaker, but I do not plan to use it on my car.
Back in the 70's I had 2 round Pioneer speakers in those round holes, driven by an 8 track:-) I'm using dual cone 6x9's front & rear this time, rear speaker grill fairly "period correct" perforated metal '57 Chevy type.
Fully restored '54 Aero Lark
Rusty '58 Austin Healey 100-Six
Barely running'74 Chevelle Malibu