Author Topic: Oil Fiilters on HJ and Allstate  (Read 3413 times)

njpatera

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Re: Oil Fiilters on HJ and Allstate
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2017, 07:24:49 AM »
Again, great explanation...a confirmation to what the info on the filter sites state that I’ve been exploring.
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Noah

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kaiserfrazerlibrary

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Re: Oil Fiilters on HJ and Allstate
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2017, 10:30:03 AM »
OK, oil filter installation is back on the table.  I can start cleaning up the canister unit & repaint it after Barbara & I move into the new house; we hope to be settled in by Christmas.

Fid

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Re: Oil Fiilters on HJ and Allstate
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2017, 11:35:12 AM »
I appreciate the explanation regarding the oil distribution part. As mentioned, I have not seen nor studied that aspect of it but I stand by my previous comments regarding the practicality of this type of filter. Regardless, change  the oil every 1,000 miles or whenever it looks dirty. That's really the key.
 
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MarkH

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Re: Oil Fiilters on HJ and Allstate
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2017, 05:51:30 PM »
I'm still squarely in the camp that any oil going elsewhere is not available to go to the bearings. The pump can only introduce a finite amount of oil into the system, my pump tested at 1.2 gallons per minute. The system as designed returns (leaks) oil back into the sump at each bearing, and at the filter if fitted. In the 161 F-head, that also includes the rocker arm bushings. The bearings, bushings (and filter) are all communicating through the same oiling system and any one part (or parts) worn or flowing (leaking) more oil than the others determines the maximun pressure of the entire oiling system.
Be that as it may, maybe the back pressure required to force oil through the filter insures all bearings receive enough lube to maintain a barrier film. Maybe worn bearings get all the pump output, and back pressure at the filter stops the loss there? I have no idea, but being a common system, they all receive the same pressurized oil trying to find a way back to the sump. The Ford Maverick version F-head had a modern full flow spin on filter at the oil pump that eliminated this issue altogether, all oil returning to the sump flows through the bearings.
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DTort96646

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Re: Oil Fiilters on HJ and Allstate
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2017, 06:49:36 PM »
In these engines, the oil flow is dedicated to the main bearings first. Then from the mains in the crankshaft, the oil flow goes to the rod bearings and some of that oil squirts to the cylinder walls. At the same time through another main bearing oil galley feeds the camshaft bearings and then the tappets. The oil filter is fed last from the tappet oil galley. Think of it like a garden hose that feeds a lawn sprinkler. The main hose feeds the first lawn sprinkler (main bearings and rod bearings), then goes to the next sprinkler(camshaft bearings and tappets), the next sprinkler has a much smaller feed hose ( a restricted flow) from the second sprinkler in line ( feeds the oil filter and oil pressure gauge). The pressure drops to a degree depending on how many sprinklers you have, but the pressure is still greatest at the first sprinkler (main bearings and rod bearings.) The oil does not flow from the pump to the oil filter at the same time it flows to the mains and rods. The oil flow is not split into separate channels, but goes to the 4 main bearings at the same time. Actually oil returns (leaks) to the crankcase from each of the lubricated parts inside the engine including but not limited to the mains, rods, camshaft bearings and tappets. The largest leak will cause the greatest pressure loss. The pressure loss from the oil filter is always the same because of the line size and the filter medium, and does not cause a loss in oil pressure as the engine wears. If the filter element gets plugged, there will be no oil pressure loss from the filter. These are only partial flow filters.  I hope this helps.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 07:00:23 PM by DTort96646 »

DTort96646

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Re: Oil Fiilters on HJ and Allstate
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2017, 07:12:52 PM »
Hi Folks, just to add I'm not trying to change anyone's mind regarding oil filters. Just trying to clarify what actually happens and how the oil flows in the 161 and 226 engines. Actually all modern day engines.

Fid

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Re: Oil Fiilters on HJ and Allstate
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2017, 09:35:00 PM »
I appreciate your comments DTort96646. That's what these boards are about. Sharing information.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 09:36:49 PM by Fid »
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MarkH

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Re: Oil Fiilters on HJ and Allstate
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2017, 10:19:46 PM »
I'm with you on the point of not trying to influence others to add or remove a filter, just engaging in the discussion. It's certainly made me study my engine in more detail. Not having the filter I had to find exactly where one would plumb in. Also, I have no knowledge whatsoever of the 226 engine oiling system.

I'm seeing a different layout of the 161 F-head oil galleries than you describe. Looks like a common main gallery with galleries branching off to communally feed nearby cam, main & rod galleries. I don't see any reason why the oil pressure wouldn't apply just as equally to the oil filter input as it does to the front main & cam bearings.

 Thanks for the earlier input on engine oil. My engine had what might be described as a thick coating of oil mayonnaise in various areas when it was opened up. Something I certainly want to avoid repeating.
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DTort96646

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Re: Oil Fiilters on HJ and Allstate
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2017, 08:02:58 AM »
Mark H, great diagram from the Willys service manual page 39. Page 38 explains the diagram in good detail and follows the flow from the oil pump to the main oil passage, to the mains, rods, etc, from the galley above the front camshaft bearing that leads to the outside of the block that connects to the external oil filter housing.