New Frazer Owner 1951 Vagabond

[Damoj]

Hi.  It would appear all my senses have left me and I decided to buy a 51 Frazer that was last on the road in 1965, if the Washington plates are to be believed.  I know next to nothing about this car other than it has an over drive 3 speed, flat head 6, and lots of rust with a few dents thrown in for measure.   It looks like somebody at some point was going to convert it to 12 volt but never finished.  I have many many questions but thought it would be best to introduce myself and my car.

So far I have given it a bath and have got the engine to spin after a liberal application of Murphys mystery oil.   I have also taken out the starter, taken it apart and cleaned it out.  It was packed with all kinds of crud.  After that I put in a 12volt battery, a ford starter solenoid and battery new wires.  After letting it sit for a few days with Murphys in the cylinders I got it to spin.  Compression is 0 on all but piston 6, but I think maybe the valves are stuck because the Murphys should seal up the rings enough to register a number.

About me.  I have a background in Alfa Romeo and BMW's with the odd Ford tossed in so I am no stranger to automobiles.  I also race a 1983 T-Bird in the West Coast chump car series, so I am no stranger unconventional thinking when it comes to repairs.

My first 2 questions are, where is the fuse box, and how do I remove the dash?

Josh

[Fid]

Ah yes, the "Fuse Box Question" again. This question comes up every now and then. The fact is, most cars from that era, including the Frazer and Kaiser, do not have a fuse box. The '51 Frazer has the main circuit breaker (30 amp) built into the headlight switch (at the rear of the switch). Radios and heaters were options on these old cars and they have their own inline fuses and get their power from the ignition switch. There will also be a fuse on the overdrive relay - mounted vertically.

[Damoj]

Thanks for the heads up.  After I dug into the electrical I found it not to be very complicated.

It just about all the wires are showing copper, so I need to do a complete require on this car. 

Any trick to getting the dash out?

[Fid]

I've never had the dash out of one but I'm sure someone on here can chime in. If you join the club there is a member who makes the wire harnesses and they look like new, made with the cloth insulation. Good stuff.

[joefrazer]

Its actually easier to work on everything with the dash in place. It does unbolt and is removable as whole, however, rewiring will require it to be back in place...so better to leave it.

If you want to remove it, you'll need to remove the windshield garnish molding for access to some of the fasteners. The others can be reached from under the dash. If the car has a radio, there may be one bolt under the hood on the top of the firewall. It holds the radio in place.

[Damoj]

I should probably check my email more often... the dash is out.  This car seems to have been hosting many generations of creatures.
Most of the wires are bare copper.  Blower switch is rusted up solid, as are the hood release cable, the vent cables, and the clock adjust cable.

The water temp gauge reads 212 F, so I don't think it's working right.  Is there a replacement or can it be repaired?

This car has a lot of rot, and a huge dent in the rear quarter panel.  I think in any other case it would be a write off.  Since I want to get better at body work, and I like to do things the hard ware, I think this is the perfect car.

Right now my plan is to rewire it 12volt using a Cooper/Bussmann 15303 fuse panel and a 37702 Power Relay Module.  I want to keep it as stock looking as I can.  I think I am going to use a weather-pack connector and make the dash a harness.  I will probably make a body harness and an engine harness.   The idea being at some point down the line if somebody wants to take it all back to stock, all they have to do is disconnect my wiring harness and put in a factory one.  My goal is always to be reversible.

So the floors are shot, the rockers have seen better days and the trunk floor is more air than metal.  I have seen floors and rockers for sale on eBay, but it doesn't look like the parts for my year would work.  Anybody have an idea on what I need?

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Before going much further, I would strongly suggest that, if you don't already have them, get the 1951 Factory Shop Manual covering the 1951 Frazer and 1951 Kaiser, as well as the yellow/black cover 1951 Frazer unillustrated parts book.  The shop manual has wiring diagrams, diagnostics, and other good things to know about the mechanical and body sides of the car.  As for parts, many parts vendors in and outside the club typically need the K-F part number as a reference point.   Many mechanical items will interchange with 1949-1950 model year Frazers, but not all so the info can be a help.

Just as a matter of curiosity, does the door post serial number plate show an "A" as in the example - F515-A0002222?

[joefrazer]

When the engine is shut off, the temp gauge in your car will rest at 212. Once the key switch is turned on, it should pull back to the correct reading. Replacement gauges are available.

You have a 1951 Frazer which uses the same pan as the 1949 and 1950 Kaiser and Frazer. There is a pair of rockers on ebay right now. The difference with your car and the others is the molding size and placement. Since the repop rockers are not predrilled for moldings, you can use them. I was also able to find floor panels on ebay too.

Floors - http://www.ebay.com/itm/FRONT-FLOOR-PAN-KAISER-FRAZER-1946-47-48-49-50-NEW-/200924843078?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AKaiser&hash=item2ec80dcc46&vxp=mtr

Rockers - http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROCKER-PANELS-KAISER-FRAZER-1949-50-NEW-PAIR-FREE-SHIPPING-/400481908957?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AKaiser&hash=item5d3e94f8dd&vxp=mtr

[Damoj]

Thanks for the info on the temp gauge and sheet metal.

The temp gauge seems to be mechanical.  Is there some part I am missing?  It seems the temp gauge should work independent of  power.

Those floors look like they would work great.  Hard to get a sense of what they might cover, looks like I would have to fabricate some metal that goes up towards the transmission tunnel and the pedals.  Does anybody  have any pictures of what these look like when they are installed?  That would give me a better sense of how they sit.

The plate on the door reads F-515-002822

The plate in the engine bay reads
| Model | Body | Paint | Trim |  DR | TR | AG
    515       5         330    553       1      4      5

     9            206
Sched. | Item No.

Body Number 1310

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

This is an interesting car

The tags indicate that the body was built on or around March 24, 1950 and came off the Willow Run assembly line just before the end of March 1950.  Production of 1951 Frazers (4-door sedan and Vagabonds) started March 15, 1950 according to factory records.

The body is the 310th Vagabond built and the car is the 1,822nd 1951 Frazer standard series (4-door sedan & Vagabonds were the standard series models) produced; serial numbers in 1951 started with "1001"  The car has the standard accessory group for a 1951 Frazer F515, It was built for sale in the 48 United States of the day, and it was factory equipped with overdrive transmission.  The original color of the car was Blue Satin with Hickory Brown pleated vinyl (I think you will find that there is another 5 at the TRIM header for trim number 5553). 

[Doc]

The floor pans and rocker panels I acquired off ebay 2-3 years ago required much work to make them work in my '51 Frazer hardtops, especially the floor pans where I had to do trimming and folding and add additional patch panels, so be wary.

[Damoj]

So I am taking a part the dash to fix some rust issues, and I have it out and stripped.... mostly.  The ignition switch is being a pain to remove.  I found this forum entry about how to take the ignition switch out of a 51 kaiser, but it doesn't seem to work.

http://kfclub.com/forum/index.php?topic=3169.0

Granted, most everything on this car is rusted.  I had to cut into the blower switch just to get it out of the dash because it was so badly rusted.

Is there some trick to getting this ignition switch out?  What would plan 'B' be if the correct method didn't work?

Thank in advance for any insight.

[Damoj]

Anybody have any ideas?  The ignition switch is the only thing holding me up right now.

[BigDave LM6174]

Can you post a picture of it?

[Damoj]

Good idea. This is a picture of the lock with the key in it and a stiff wire in the correct hole.  When I push down on the wire I can feel a spring or something compressing or at least moving, but alas the lock won't come out.