Kaiser Frazer pickups

[DaveF]

Hi...... At one time I inquired about your pick-up........ Seller said pick-up bed was plywood?  At onetime was a flower car?

Dave F. #10113

[frankies frazer]

Yes, he had no history except that it came from a man's estate auction when he died. He had a wrecker service and collected cars. I believe the Freedie Martin car was in his collection.
You are right the owner did not know what he had and guessed it a flower car! We talked about that on another post. The bed of the truck does have plywood overlay like most old trucks. Thanks for your comment!

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Except for the very first Manhattans off the line, all 1947's will be Kaiser-Frazer tagged.  Read more about Manhattans in the item that's part of KFOCI HANDBOOK Volume 6.0. 

[Gordie]

I have a photo of cars being loaded into a train car with a sign above saying "Kaiser-Frazer automobiles from Willow Run to Muntz Car Co. Los Angeles Calif."The car shown is a 1946 built Kaiser and one of the first on the West Coast.  The Frazer Manhattan was announced around March 1947 and the early Manhattans still had the wide radiators and struts to hold up the hood.  These cars were scarce and too valuable when new to convert into a truck until later years when they lost that value.  My first Frazer was purchased in 1956 for $25.00 and by that time if the car ran good it could be a good prospect for conversion.  Pick-up beds have been all steel since the late 1920's except for wood slats on the floor to make loading easier.

[frankies frazer]

I like what you say about early Manhattans to valuable to cut up new!!! That's what I'm talking about, I have documents proveing this Manhattan is an early manhattan AND docs that is was made BEFORE   1950! So what your saying is it would have to be special to be built into a truck early on because of value of car and that is what happed to this truck!
Thanks again

[84RabbitGTI]

Jake's photo was one of mine, taken in Lincoln, Nebraska in 1983.  I was with Gene Meyer and we took their 1951 Frazer Manhattan Vagabond to a regional KFOCI meet there.  That was my very first ride in a Kaiser-Frazer product.  I've had the strange addiction ever since.  Here is the original photo.

[Gordie]

I like what you say about early Manhattans to valuable to cut up new!!! That's what I'm talking about, I have documents proveing this Manhattan is an early manhattan AND docs that is was made BEFORE   1950! So what your saying is it would have to be special to be built into a truck early on because of value of car and that is what happed to this truck!
Thanks again

I am glad that you have so much documentation regarding who modified your car and when it was done as that will be crucial to proving that it was done as you believe in 1947 by Earl Muntz and not many years later as is most probable.  You say that it was built before 1950?  That was three years after Muntz left his K-F investments and went on to other things.  I believe that if Muntz had any cars converted into trucks which is very doubtful it would have to have been done in early 1947 which would have made them new cars.  Show us this documentation.

[frankies frazer]

Been on vaca
Ok,
First As pointed out my manhattan is a very early one by its serial number and the hood braces also confirms this. Second the "On Slaunt of Detroit" book says that the first Kaiser Frazer cars went to Muntz Car Company which probably puts this car in Muntz's distributing. Third the Betts Curtis plate in the Possie truck (Gary's #3) matches the plate that my truck had (you can see evidence where it was and it was in same spot as the Posie truck and the plate was put on the Horizon Blue not put on the Claypipe gray the sedan was originally. Fourth the Posie Truck and the Frazer truck came off the assembly line at the same time. I am waiting on Gary's permission to release his docs that puts his truck with Muntz. There is also the fact it was found in a high dollar collection with another famous Muntz Jet owned by the famous band leader Freddie Martin. Who Muntz customized Freddie's car several times (written about in several articles). The mysterious CA #1 dealer license plate found in the truck. The proffestional build and not a hack job.
Like I have said before, I am only stating what I have found, what I have been told, and the documentation of it being an early car and matching the Posie truck time period and the visual evidence with the plate and the Docs from the Possie truck, which I feel I need permission to post because the owner has been so kind. I Also  have an original CA title that clearly states it's a 1947 pickup truck not a sedan as it started life. Which also proofs it was made into a truck as a new car!!!
I am still looking into other avenues and always welcome everyone's opinion!

[frankies frazer]

Stay tuned! 
You know what, sure it would be nice to have Muntz name on it but even if people are skeptical it still what it is! An early Manhattan professionally made into a pickup at an early age! And that my friends is really cool! And I dig the look (that's what started all this)
Peace Out

[frankies frazer]

Hmmmm, sounds fun! Maybe to soon for me.
I am trying to get the truck mechanically in shape to drive but I am by no means going to change anything on the truck especially the patina that it has. I believe it it in complete original condition. But I do plan on showing it! That's why I want to drive it.

[frankies frazer]

I should.
What do you think the best car show would be to show the truck, maybe the Kaiser Frazer national meet??
I also am trying to get ahold of the Dave Clark family that owned the truck in the 50's from portland Oregon to maybe shed some more light on this subject. Portland is where TV Muntz lives today but I'm sure there is no connection there.
I am also working with the CA DMV hoping a name can found from the CA license plate that was with the truck.
There is also the man that sold the Posie truck to Gary that has some information I haven't seen yet.
 

[frankies frazer]

Muntz Car Co. was at 1101 Figueroa St in Los Angeles and in January 1946 announced that he had 31 dealers in four counties in Southern California according to an ad in Auto News magazine.  Jack's memo was from Henry Kaisers son who worked briefly at the Long Beach assembly plant. 

in response to  statement above

So there was a KF assembly plant in long beach Ca. That is where the trucks were supposedly made in Long Beach (see original article about the Posie truck). It is also the same area as Compton California that you guys say  the trucks was made. HMMMM,  It is very possible that one is the same and the trucks (mine and the Posie came from that assembly plant because they are just a few serial numbers apart.
Come on guys, this is too ironic along with everything else mentioned
If you go back and read everything that has been said on this post, it is hard not to believe the trucks were made early and went through Earl Muntz and that they were proposed for production.  Please read

[frankies frazer]

Well I guess it wasn't KF assembly plant but Ford. So Kaisers son worked for Ford?
Anyway this area seemed like a hub for this kinda thing.

[frankies frazer]

In the beginning of this post club members were talking about the Muntz trucks and now everyone is sayin they don't exist!
Untill Gary with the Posie  truck comes forward with his info, here is what we know.
The two trucks mentioned are without a doubt built very early (probably before 1948)
The Frazer is a very very early Manhattan (by the serial # and hood struts)
The Kaiser Truck and the Frazer truck came off the factory line at the same time ( by the serial numbers being the same week)
Earl Muntz received the first Kaiser Frazer cars to be sold, so these two trucks went through his distributorship or hands
The Frazer has a original Southern California title stating it IS a 1947 Frazer PICKUP (says right on the 1950 issued title)
The Kaiser Frazer Quarterly has mentioned that there was trucks that were thought to have Muntz providence, clear back in a 1994 publication and talked about for 30 years or more
Everyone knew that the truck in GA ( that Ray Fraizer had) claimed Muntz way back in the day and this truck is now Gary's Posie truck and  The Frazer truck came off the factory line at the same time
Both trucks have similar builds
The owner of the Frazer truck in the 50's claims it was a very SPECIALl build in southern California but wasn't sure by whom
The build is very very Professional

and all the Mickey Mouse stuff like

Being found in Oregon with the Freddie Martin Muntz Jet
The Muntz family resides in the same area in Oregon
The 1947 #1 California Dealer tag found in the truck
The 1950 time magazine found in the truck stuffed in the hood braces that has a picture and article about Muntz in it, A story about Henry Kaiser, A Muntz TV ad, and a Muntz Jet Ad. (I know this is silly but it is there and is still there)

And like I said before: It is a very special build, an early Manhattan, a cool ride, and has a special place in our history of KF
It is also so original with it's dust, dirt and Patina, who wouldn't like it except someone that is dead or jealous!
 

[Gordie]

Hopefully for the last time we ask you for one shred of evidence that Earl Muntz ever assembled any cars.  Old rumors and opinions by un-informed sources do not count. Where is your source that you claim that your car was made in Long Beach CA.  The Long Beach plant was open from Oct. 1949 thru Jan. 1951 and all they did is assemble new cars, they never built any.  All 1947-1948 Kaisers and Frazers were built in Willow Run MI.  Earl Muntz received cars from Willow Run as a distributor and dealer in 1946 and 1947 in Los Angeles, CA.  If you register a vehicle in California the verifier will determine the body style by visual inspection.  All cars registered in CA. before 1950 were registered by the motor number and not the serial number.  I have been a CA. vehicle dealer for over fifty years and have registered many thousands of vehicles.  Kaiser Ambulances and limos and taxi conversions are documented and certainly many Kaisers were converted into pickup trucks over the years.  Yours was nicely done but the green hot rod no longer exists as an original Kaiser.  Enjoy your car and it will always be welcome at Kaiser-Frazer events as a customized car.  If you ever come up with any real evidence from Mr. Muntz's history we will reconsider its place in the Kaiser Frazer world.  After almost seventy years no one has ever documented that Earl Muntz ever built or customized any Kaisers or Frazers.  I'm sure now that the rumor started when one was customized into a truck by a dealer in San Diego and then sold to the dealer near Long Beach who was a dealer when Muntz had his distributorship in Los Angeles.  See pictures of this nice truck earlier in this post.