1951 Frazer Tail Light Lenses - New Production

[jerussel]

As long as the price is not ridiculous, I'll be buying a pair (maybe 2)

I'd also like to request the club to do another run of steering wheels that will fit a '51 Frazer and a '51 Frazer plastic front emblem.
I understand the club has made runs of both in the past.
The fact that they are all gone should confirm that there is interest in these items.

John

[ben-tex]

The club has never made steering wheels for the 51 F. There was a run of wheels for the 51-53 Kaisers. Cost is a big factor because of the requirement of making a proper mold for casting the wheels. As I understand it the club still has the mold for the 51-53 Kaisers but would have to start from scratch on the 51 F. I suspect the only way such a project could be undertaken is if enough people actually pre-paid to make it economically possible. The front emblems were contracted for by the late Herb Long. He donated his remaining supply at some point to the manufacturing fund.

[Doc]

Indeed, front emblems are very much needed.  And I would like to get at least one set of the T/L lenses, and depending upon the cost, additional sets.

[jerussel]

Ben-Tex - thanks for the information.  I was unaware that the sterring wheels were only for '51 to '53 Kaisers.  I guess I'll just have to repair mine as well as I can.  I am NOT paying the 1000.00 price I was quoted to restore mine!

So - T/L lenses and hopefully a medalion can be had at some point...

[Kaiser_Jonas]

i´m intressed in new glas to frazer 1951.
when to you think you are gona start selling?

[jerussel]

Is there any more information about the tail lights???  and when they may be available???

[Doc]

Been awhile.   What's the latest on the '51 lenses? 

[joefrazer]

Update...I will be speaking with the manufacturing fund manager towards the end of the month and hope to have a decision made at that time. So far, I've only had about 10 folks say they'd be interested in a pair of lenses, I really need a commitment from more like 20 in order to make this a viable project. So, if you know someone with a 51F who's lenses are marginal, impress upon them the need to get involved. The club makes little to nothing on the sale of manufacturing fund parts so any unsold inventory can be a real liability.

Stay tuned!

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Like so many projects of this type within the club, it is a Catch-22 situation.  People won't commit until they know price and the Manufacturing Fund has no info on price until it knows how many sets it is likely to pre-sell to help establish a run price.

Remember also that almost all of the actual cost of the project is to create the injection moulding tooling needed to make the part.  This can easily run into many, many thousands of dollars.  While the tooling will last, what about the demand.  In theory, everyone owning a 1951 Frazer should have at least 2 spare sets on hand in case of an accident at a show or while driving/hauling.

[Doc]

Well, I have four '51 Frazers, one with excellent lenses, one with one lense good, and then the other two 4-doot hatdtops in work, so if price is right potential for at least two sets.  Guess I just have a real hard time understanding the cost to create moldings and whatever for plastic lenses. If lenses are not made available and reasonably priced, who would want to restore a '51 or even buy one with damaged lenses.  So it would appear the original moldings were not retained when these things were reproduced before and that's a shame. Just keep us posted.  I really wouldn't want to have to go with '56 Clipper Custom or '59 Caddy taillights.

[Cortes121]

Are the lenses different for the '51 Frazer and Aero Willys? They look similar, but mounted differently.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Willys and Frazer tail lights are a physically different size and have different mounting points.

Some companies saved molds and tooling for parts they made (at the auction of Doehler-Jarvis, for example, they still had tooling to make some of the different Packard grilles from the 1950's), but most others asked the car companies for disposition (save or scrap) & typically the car companies indicated scrap (to save on storage costs) unless they felt there would be significant service parts orders (like the 1957 Chevy grille bars...we were still using the last remaining set of tooling from GM Parts and Service when I was at Ken-Dec in KY).  Unless the tooling prints are still around (not in the case of the 1951 Frazer lenses, as far as I know) you would have to take measurements off a perfect set of originals.  Each curve, contour and detail feature would have to be accurately reproduced.  This takes time and costs money to do it right.  Forget about going to China...all the decent places have enough work to keep them going for years.

Would JOE FRAZER call me...I have an idea that may be worth checking out to lower the cost on plastic parts projects.

[Kaiser_Jonas]

i´m intressting in at least 3 set of taillights for frazer 1951 if it´s good quality´.
// jonas

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Some people have asked about the cost of tooling on these things.  I have over 20 years experience in die casting (same as injection molding only we use metal instead of plastic) and can help answer that   ...

Because of the temperature of the material and the pressure used to shove the material into the mold (we are talking hundreds of tons) you can't use just any material here.  The material you have to use to make tail lights is not like the cheap junk plastic used in things like the dinasour making units you see at fun parks.  Also, you have a lot more detail (fine lines, screw posts, etc) than the cheap things can handle.  Additionally, these days, you have to conform to Department of Transportation regulations for reflectiveness, brightness, etc, that you did not have to meet when our cars were new.    All this requires a lot of almost microscopic detail when cutting tooling from hardened steel and testing (with the appropriate documentation) to show the parts meet spec.

Also, you are actually talking 4 molds; two molds for each side (LH and RH).  In the case of the tail light, you probably would be talking the base and the outside.  The two halves have to be constructed so they consistently fit EXACTLY perfect (or very, very close to it) with various types of overflow passages that are used to pull the molding material (in this case plastic) through past the farthest points away from where the material comes into the mold.  The molds have to also be designed to fit specific types of machines (the equipment that will run it) so the various fittings match up and properly work.


I suggest that anyone interested contact a tool and die shop in their area and ask about prices to see for yourself.  Also, remember that you probably won't sell any more than 100-120 sets and there are other expenses connected with running these things.

[Gordie]

That makes the current price of $500 to $600 for a NOS pair look like a bargain.  You had better buy them when you see them!