Judging manual

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

The information will be saved and built on as I acquired a lot of new material since the 1990's.  At present, I am waiting for an envelope from Char with materials she has worked up from the Darrin and we see where things go from there.

Please keep in mind that the final version (if I have anything to say about it) will be STRONGLY based on factory-released documents of various types, not what somebody thought was correct or what a past Chief Judge offered club members for sale.

PS:  If you have a Kaiser or Frazer with a 226 in it, I strongly do NOT recommend running Champion J-8 plugs in it.  With today's gasoline (evaporates at lower temperatures than gas produced when K-F cars were new) you are more prone to vapor lock and overheating.  The Auto-Lite Thermal Rating Chart indicates AC 44 or J-10 Champion plugs run in the range of the A-5.  Kaiser-Frazer published a Service Bulletin advising dealers that if they had a 226 that was running hot or experiencing vapor lock and had A-7's they should drop it down to the A-5 if the engine had at least 6,000 miles on it.  This is one of MANY points the standards will have to resolve.

Jack Mueller

[Terry T]

Any such concern with the 161?
J8's are called out as "correct" for the Darrin.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Interestingly enough, I have no information from Willys-Overland or Willys Motors about the engine issues that K-F had with spark plugs in the 226.  The thermal rating chart gives the A-5 a rating of 5 to 30, on a scale of -10 to 100.  The A-7 is rated at 25 to 50.  J-8 Champions are rated same as the A-7.  Bottom line is that the A-7 produces a significantly hotter spark which may give you a bit more fuel economy and a bit more "ummpf" but apparently not enough in the eyes of K-F engineers to be significant or they would hot have issued the service bulletin.

In the case of plugs for the 226, it should be noted that Champion J-8 are non K-F because Kaiser-Frazer never used Champion plugs on the line.  To be fair, the original Auto-Lite type A-5 or A-7 are not in production (but have turned up at swap meets; I've picked up several boxes of the A-5 over the years) which helps build a case for "original" as in factory type vs. "acceptible" or what will be considered a no point deduction alternative.  I would like to think that the number of "original" things you have would help determine "extra credit" which could be helpful if the judging sheet showed a point total within a couple points of moving up an award.

Jack Mueller

[HJ-ETEX]

Terry, Jack:
 It is easy to look at factory literature and determine Autolite A5 & A7 sparkplugs were used in KF cars. You can't get these plugs anymore as normal replacements, nor can you get Champion J-8s (you can get a modern equivalent, the J-8C, but it differs in appearance). These are CONSUMABLE components and I don't think you should expect a running car to have these components.

[HJ-ETEX]

And concerning "extra points," at one time the National Judging Sheet had checks for additional items such as fog, driving and spot lights for extra points. Some had the opinion that this was a way to promote sales of accessory items by the Chief Judge. I do know that most KF cars were not equipped with these accessories. To promote the installation of these items is to promote an incorrect concept of what these cars looked like when sold!

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Your various comments are noted.  The issue with the spark plugs is but one example of how things were manipulated by a former Chief Judge to his advantage.  Also, on the subject of plugs, the J-8 heat range as I have noted already, runs too hot for the 226 as a general rule using todays gasoline with its low evaporation temperature compared to gas made when the cars were new.

Another issue is pleats.  Kaiser-Frazer had a standard width for pleats of various material.  However, remember these were hand-sown up on one of the balcony areas at Willow Run and the work was done by hand.  As such, there would be variation between the different seamstresses as well as the same seamstress on different days.  A tollerance allowance would have to be established.

It would be oh so much easier if the old factory files still existed but they went to the landfill courtesy of American Motors soon after they acquired Kaiser-Jeep Corporation. 

[AZ_HJ]

Note: None of the Accessories I have acquired for my 1952 Henry J Vagabond Deluxe were obtained from any former or current Head Judge. (To the best of my knowledge.)

I want to ask everyone when was the last time you purchased a new car that did not have a 'Dealer' added accessory?

I also would like to know how many Henry J's were purchased in the 'snow belt' that did not include a 'Dealer' installed (KF) heater.

Do we know how other Classic Car Clubs address Accessories in Judging?

Would you value a 'Factory' correct car (no KF Dealer add-on KF accessory) more than a 'Period' correct car which has a few Dealer add-on (factory authorized) accessories? Like in the case of a Radio, Heater, and/or Oil Filter on a Henry J. That is assuming that condition and all other factors are the same.


I welcome good discussion on this issue.

Best,

Mark

[Logan]

It seems to me (being a non-expert) that correct accessories (either factory of dealer) should in no way remove points, as long as they are correct for that year and model and are in good condition, etc.  But they should not ADD points either.  Getting extra points by adding accessories?  I don't see how there would be any justification whatsoever for that.

As to period correct accessories (non-factory, non-dealer) I lean toward not accepting them, i.e. Points should be docked for something like a 'period correct' air conditioning unit.  Thoughts?

[AZ_HJ]

Logan,

Geat comments and feedback.


Mark

[Gordie]

I like authorized accessories on K-F products but I do not believe that they should add any points but they could be a deduction if they are installed incorrectly, need chrome work or do not work.  Same thing for white wall tires.  If they are radials or do not have the correct white wall width there should be a deduction.  I think that aftermarket accessories are already a deduction for us although "Era" accessories are acceptable for many clubs.  Two other items that will be an issue are turn signals and seat belts.  They are a safety item and are accepted by most clubs if done tastefully.

[Terry T]

You are soooo correct about American Motors tossing records.  At the Orphan Car Show in Ypsi several years ago, I met a dude who was walking around with a very large album that was filled with original KF photos and sketches of both the Darrin and Henry J in various stages of prototype--some in clay.  He claims that he was a draftsman working late at AMC when they were dumping files.  He took as much as he could carry in several trips!!!  Great viewing but not for sale.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

I'm starting a separate topic on the issue of accessories relating to judging as well as other judging type issues.  I look forward to getting all kinds of comments on the matter and the information will be useful in the evolution of the standards program.   Please feel free to comment.

Thanks,

Jack Mueller

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

I have today (1/27/2010) received an envelope from Charlotte Dayton concerning the matter of written judging standards.


The information in the envelope arrived too late to change my item in the February 2009 Bulletin about the judging standards activities.  It seems I misunderstood or was misinformed as to what my role in the project was to be, although the idea of having rough drafts for testing at the 2010 National appears to be a correct milestone date.

Jack Mueller
Club Historian (at least for now)
Kaiser-Frazer Owners Club International

[AZ_HJ]

Jack,

Can you be a little more clear as to what you are communicating above? Might you be able to compare what you thought your role was going to be to what it seems your new expected role is?


I want this process to be successful and not fall on the shoulder of one individual.


Best,

Mark Steele

[HJ-ETEX]

Just to remind people about how judging has been conducted, consider the case of a HJ or cheap Kaiser and a heater. These didn't come with factory installed heaters (although there were factory approved dealer installed types) and if such a car was judged and didn't have a heater, no points were taken off. If the car had a heater, then it would be judged on condition BUT no points would be taken off if the heater was an Arvin, Allstate, etc. instead of one of the factory approved items. Of course if the installation was crude, that might result in a point off.