Author Topic: Judging manual  (Read 25327 times)

Fid

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2009, 04:06:08 PM »
Jack, you can certainly count me in if you need input on the Henry J.
1953 Henry J Corsair Deluxe
Edgar Kaiser's custom 1951 Henry J
1951 Kaiser Special
1952 Allstate Deluxe

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kaiserfrazerlibrary

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2009, 05:15:18 PM »
I thank people for their interest in such a project.  Please be advised however, that I have not been asked to take the point on this and am not trying to underminesomebody else's effort.  However, if it is handed off to me, I hope that it will be the sooner the better;  the ability to hold this ambitious time line depends in part on getting the team together and circulation of the existing draft materials no latter than early February 2010.

It seems to me the big problem is that a number of people in the club may be surprised if not shocked to find out that an Auto-Pride restoration does not guarantee repeated Gold Awards in KFOCI Judging; they may also be surprised that groups like the AACA don't know our cars all that well either...

Gordie

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2009, 06:47:29 PM »
This is all the more reasons to get the judging guidelines to the membership.  Everyone can use them!  Jack, you are the logical one to spearhead the effort and I hope that everyone who reads this will offer to help out by reviewing their own car and offering suggestions to make the guidelines really usable.  We need a writeup in the Bulletin too as many members are still not on-line.  Fortunately many members are really experts on their own car.  Please contact Jack if you can help on any car model that you feel comfortable with.  Jack, would you make up a list of all of the makes and models that you have existing guidelines for?  Not everyone realizes all of the work that you have already put into all of these K-F products.
Member #3151 Since June 1974
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'47 Graham Paige Frazer                                   
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AZ_HJ

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2009, 08:13:53 PM »
I would be enjoy being a member of the group for Henry J, Allstates, HJ Vagabonds.

I am sure that Char would welcome this kind of help once she see the outpouring of members wishing to work on it.
1948 Willy CJ2A Jeep
1952 Henry J Vagabond Deluxe
1953 Kaiser Traveler Deluxe

kaiserfrazerlibrary

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2009, 10:30:33 AM »
According to an e-mail I received from Char on 12/11/2009, the Judging Manual was finished years ago by party or parties unknown to me.  Judges have supposedly been using this highly confidential (have you ever seen a copy?  I haven't) but it appears it may contain various errors or omissions (and they judged cars using it???).  All she wants to do is update it.   


And for years I've been told nothing in writing exists.

Jack Mueller
Club Historian

AZ_HJ

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2009, 11:00:44 AM »
I will be as kind as I can be.....but how can you be judged on a standard that is not available to restore your car to? That is plain stupid!

That is but another reason we are loosing members or at least member become really inactive.
1948 Willy CJ2A Jeep
1952 Henry J Vagabond Deluxe
1953 Kaiser Traveler Deluxe

mbflemingkf

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2009, 11:41:54 AM »
Sounds a bit like our secret Darrin Society (God, please forgive me for that minor transgression against this legendary select few)...get 'er done!!!
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 11:45:30 AM by mbflemingkf »
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pnw_oldmags

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2009, 12:37:31 PM »
Here in the Beautiful PNW at our meets we have been minimizing the judging.  Long Distance, Mayor's Choice, Best Color, Most Original, Nicest Interior are the kind of awards we have been judging to.  When you attempt to judge to standards that are only opinions and memories that are not written down, all you will get is hard feelings.  We find that KF friendships and smiles are much more important than a 200 point car.  It is nice to restore your car back to show room condition to share with your friends and guest but when arguments break out over whether your hood ornament is factory installed, dealer installed or after market then I believe your priorities are misplaced.  Just my thoughts for the day.  Merry Christmas and keep smiling.
Jim Betts  LM6945
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https://circlekf.com

kaiserfrazerlibrary

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2009, 04:20:09 PM »
I agree with the last posting from the PNW area, but there is a snag at the National level.  Insurance companies, potential buyers (especially of the big $$$ types) and interested car owners look to the KFOCI as the authority on how close a K-F product is to original new condition.  There are no factory archives to consult for such information and there is all too much mis-information written over the years about these cars (one "authorative book" even states that Lycoming engines were used in all Kaiser and Frazer cars!).  The point score at National level judging is considered to be THE determining factor.  As this will never change with time (unless someone digs out the landfill the stuff went to in the 1970's and everything is still intact) we, the membership, owe it to ourselves, future car owners and others who will come along years after the last of the people who remember these cars new is no longer around.  This is why judging standards are necessary and that these standards be available to judges and members alike.  Further, these standards should address not just details and specifications but how cars should be evaluated by judges to help owners and others restoring cars understand there is more to the process than the right upholstery material, tires, etc.

I will write more on this in the February 2010 issue of the Bulletin.

Jack Mueller      Club Historian

kaiserfrazerlibrary

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2009, 11:37:27 PM »
I have received an e-mail this date (12/31) from Char...I will be working with her on development of Judging Standards.  Anyone interested in being part of the team?

Fabian 51K

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2010, 02:30:13 AM »
Jack, I would like to be part of the team.
Fabian Oskierko LM6279

AZ_HJ

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2010, 09:16:00 AM »
Jack, I would like to be part of the team as well.
Mark Steele, KFOCI #9311
1948 Willy CJ2A Jeep
1952 Henry J Vagabond Deluxe
1953 Kaiser Traveler Deluxe

mbflemingkf

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2010, 03:23:10 PM »
Jack, Larry Barker wanted me to tell you he would like to be part of the team at a minimum on the 54-55 Kaisers.  Thanks.
KFOCI #4818, Since 1982

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1954 Kaiser Manhattan, 4 Door (Now in FL)
1955 Kaiser Manhattan, 2 Door (Now in TX)
1953 Kaiser Manhattan, 4 Door (Now in Australia)
Thousands of parts & literature (All over the world)

kaiserfrazerlibrary

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2010, 04:33:34 PM »
Hi, All....

I am extremely gratified at the response in just so short a time.  For those interested in helping, please contact me at the regular e-mail account, kaiserfrazerlibrary@yahoo.com and let me know about the area of expertise (make and/or model year or type) you can offer.  I have challenged Char to get a revised rough draft on the various cars ready in time for the 2010 National. 

Jack Mueller

Jeri Conklin

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2010, 09:41:05 PM »
Kaizerfrazerlibrary please don't toss this valuable information. I for one would be interested in buying a copy of the judging rules, etc., for the 1949 Frazer retagged 1950. Mine did not however get all the Kaiser upgrades, rather remained the same as the 1949 Frazer to begin with. I hope you will get this information finished and available to the membership, I know I will certainly appreciate it as I begin to restore my new project. Thank you for your time and dedication.