51 FRAZER MANHATTAN CONVERTABLE

[billjohnii]

FINALLY getting on my 51 Frazer convertable that some clown started to restore for me 8 - 9 years ago.  Anybody out there know what
F608 DESIGNATES ON THE SPEC-FO (special factory order section of the serial plate)   F618 for example according to "last onslaught"
is for 51 FRAZER CONV. W? SPECIAL RED LEATHER INTERIOR.

MY CAR IS SERIAL #1004, & BODY # 1006  3 SPEED MANUEL W/ OVERDRIVE.  COLOR #330 BLUE SATIN / brown leather interior

I'm determined to get this car done over the next few years.  Even though, my so called friend totally destroyed a lot of my 1st class parts.  Left my parts outside & didn't even tell me. 

Anyway...we are ready to get starteed, so I expect this will be the 1st of about 6000 letters.

ps: anybody out there interested in trading a 51 FRAZER for a 49 HUDSON COMMODORE W/ REBUILT 308 HORNET ENGINE/ NICE CAR
BILL DELL #4952  412-894-3277

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Hi,

1.  What are the SCHED and ITEM numbers on the firewall tag?

2.  For the record, what is the TRIM number on the tag?

3.  Do you have a "B" on the door post serial number tag (like K516-B0001004)?

The answers can determine something possibly interesting about your car

Jack Mueller
Club Historian

[billjohnii]

here is my tag:
MODEL  BODY   PAINT   TRIM  DR  TR   AG
516       2        330      6261   1    4     5

  1           608        16                 331
 WL         SPEC FO  SCHED          ITEM
           
          BODY 1004                                          THERE ARE NO B'S ON ANY OF MY #'S    NO MANHATTAN SCRIPT ON DOORS
                                                                   & TRUNK SCRIPT IS LONG  F R A Z E R ON TRUNK LID. NOT THE SHORT ONE
SERIAL # F-516001006  willow run                     & DOES NOT SAY MANHATTAN ON THE TRUNK LID

ALSO: THE BLUE SATIN #330 IS SAME AS # ON MY HENRY J  IT IS NOT THE METALIC..IT'S THE SAME CREMEY BLUE AS ON HJ

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Ok...what do we have here....

The 6261 in theTRIM area is Brown leather upholstery with vinyl trim, an interior specific to the 1951 Frazer Manhattan Convertible.   It was originally intended for sale (or to stay within) in the 48 United States.  The original transmission was 3-speed manual with overdrive (TR 4) and the standard Frazer accessory group (AG 5) was installed on the car. 

Now life gets interesting.  WL or Window Lifts indicate that the power windows were factory installed; the system is a DURA hydraulic type with the power top tied into it.  The SPEC-FO number indicates that the car deviated from what was considered standard equipment.  In this case, the 3-speed manual and/or the power windows would fit the bill, but the most interesting part of this is the SCHED, ITEM and BODY numbers.  SCHED refers to the build schedule the body was part of.  Normally SCHED numbers are dates in the model year...in this case SCHED 1 is March 15, 1950 when production of the 1951 model year cars started.  Get a calendar showing 1950 dates and move 16 business days ahead; that would be the approximate date the body started down the body line (not final assembly) and the 331 suggests starting in the afternoon.   This is the 4th 1951 Frazer Manhattan convertible body scheduled to be built, and would have been used for PR photos, special showings, etc.   The serial number suggests that at time of assembly, it would have been possible that 4 convertibies and 2 hardtops already rolled off the line...again consistent with needs for display.

[billjohnii]

I THOUGHT THE CAR WAS ONE OF THE AUTO SHOW CARS, BUT YOU HAVE REALLY ENLIGHTENED ME ON A LOT.  ONLY ONE THING I AM STILL CONFUSED ON.  YOU SAY THAT IT WAS THE 4TH MANHATTAN CONVERTABLE SCHEDULED TO BE BUILT.  THEN YOU SAY IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE FOR 4 CONVERTABLES & 2 HARDTOPS TO HAVE ROLLED OF THE LINE.  IF THIS IS THE 4TH, SHOULDN'T IT BE 3 CONVERTABLES & 2 HARDTOPS ?   ALSO ON THE SPEC -FO....IN THE LAST ONSLAUGHT, IN THE BACK IS SAYS F618 IS MANHATTAN
CONVERTABLE W/ RED LEATHER INTERIOR.  DIDN'T ALL THE MANHATTAN CONVERTABLES HAVE WINDOW LIFTS & OD TRANS

I ALSO REMEMBER A DISCUSSION SOME TIME AGO ABOUT THE COLOR.  I'VE SEEN THE BLUE SATIN METALIC, & THIS IS DEFINITELY THE LIGHTER BLUE LIKE MY HENRY J WHICH IS ALSO #330 PAINT #.  iT IS NOT THE DARKER METALIC.  MY WIFE WANTS ME TO PAINT THE CAR A DIFFERENT COLOR, & I DEFINITELY WILL  NOT DO THAT DUE TO THE HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS CAR.  THAT IS WHAT EXCITES ME THE MOST.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR REPLY.  I CHECKED 20 TIMES TODAY HOPING FOR YOPUR RESPONSE !! BILL

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Hi,

1.  All Frazer Hardtops and Convertibles were Manhattan models...there were no sedans or Vagabonds in this series.  Status is designated by the F516 on the door post serial number and the 516 on the body tag.  If the start-up for the 1951 model year was anything like the start-up for the 1949's, it is no surprise that the trim is different...when the 1949's came out, K-F issued dealers and distributors a 13 page (single sided) Advance Information Bulletin showing what items (including glove box doors and arm rests) that cars could be missing because vendors could not deliver the proper quantities in time for the start of production.

2.  The dealer ordering information for the 1951 Frazer F515 standard sedan and Vagabond shows the non-metallic (Henry J type) Blue Satin available for these types...I am assuming since I don't have the dealer ordering information for the 1951 Manhattans that the same colors carried over since production was to be so limited.

3.  Serial numbers started at 1, so the car is the 6th car built.  If cars were assembled (at this point) in order and your convertible body was the 4th built up, that's how I come up with 4 convertibles and 2 hardtops.  Interestingly, according to the K-F Operating Report for the 10 months ending October 31, 1950, by that date all the convertibles were built and they were finishing the build of Hardtops.

4.  Most Manhattans had Hydra-Matic as "volume production" of Manhattans began in June 1950 and GM was shipping the boxes to
Willow Run at that point. 

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

5.  This would be an "auto show" car but not the one shown at Chicago;  those cars were the vehicles shown to dealers during late January/early February 1950 in advance of the Chicago show.   

6.  Based on how the 1949-50 versions were set up, if you had a convertible, you had power top and power windows...Manhattans had a vacuum type window system supplied by Trico as used on the 1949-50 Kaiser Virginians;  regular roll up windows were also possible, but off hand, I don't know of any 1951 Manhattans set up that way.

[Jim B PEI]

Weren't overdrives only put in the first six cars, and the rest had Hydramatics?

[Doc]

Bill, I replied to your posting and sent you an email re: garnish molding on the Frazer parts wanted forum.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Your question on how many cars had overdrive is interesting...I need to dig out the October 31 1950 Operating Report...it has a table in it that identifies what percentage of cars had what factory installed options  (including Accessory Group, but not which AG if multiples were offered for a given type).

Jack Mueller