Author Topic: A tale of two Manhattans, and one first-time Kaiser owner...  (Read 4240 times)

joefrazer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4043
    • View Profile
Re: A tale of two Manhattans, and one first-time Kaiser owner...
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2020, 01:02:55 PM »
Regarding the oil, older paraffin heavy oil will have that tint. Change the oil, run the engine for an hour or so and change it again and you should be good to go. Don't bother with the filter for the first change, it's only a by-pass unit anyway.

The door panels and dash pad are made of a good quality vinyl and can be cleaned using a good, soft detergent like blue Dawn dishwashing liquid. If the paper backer is bad, new can be sourced from sources carrying antique car interior parts.

A new 53 Manhattan with the typical options would set the buyer back around $2400.

This car shows accessory group 32 which cost $113.50 and included bumper bridge caps, wheel covers, exhaust deflector, tent steering wheel, electric wipers, clock, oil bath air cleaner, directional signals, rear seat lighter and tilt type non-glare mirror. A Hydramatic transmission added about $160 to the tab.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 01:08:27 PM by joefrazer »

pjkaiser

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 549
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: A tale of two Manhattans, and one first-time Kaiser owner...
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2020, 06:32:22 PM »
Here are some specs for your 1953 Kaiser Manhattan.

Projects like this can take a lot of time and money, I hope you are prepared. 

When you are ready for wiring, contact Bob Mc Bride @ 772-466-3510.   He's been doing wiring looms for our cars at an extremely reasonable price for many years.   I talked with him about my Darrin wiring this morning and if he said that if he feels good, he will start making  wiring harnesses again.  Bob is 90.  You send him all the ends of your old loom and he puts them on for you. 
54 Darrin # 81
53 Kaiser Traveler Deluxe
51 Custom Henry J (Concept Car?)

superk226

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 168
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: A tale of two Manhattans, and one first-time Kaiser owner...
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2020, 11:06:45 PM »
Someone got really creative in the way they mounted the generator, it is mounted up side down.

ForgottenTwoManhattans

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Re: A tale of two Manhattans, and one first-time Kaiser owner...
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2020, 11:40:06 PM »
I appreciate the info and input you guys have provided. You bring up a few good points.

Yes indeed, projects like this definitely take considerable time and money to finish. Thankfully I am no stranger to projects of this scale, being a professional classic car restorer and lifelong enthusiast. The Kaiser aspect is certainly new to me, but the work in general is not.

Phase one of my plan with this car is to get it basically cleaned up, make it mechanically solid and reliable, then drive it for a bit to see what I think of it. Because of its advanced state of filth due to critters, I am going to nearly completely disassemble the car so that I can thoroughly clean it inside and out. The interior will be completely gutted. I will attempt to save the door panels and dash pad, as I'm sure those would be difficult or impossible to replace, but I will be getting rid of the carpet, seat upholstery and headliner. I will strip the seats down to bare frames, then start with having the front seat professionally refoamed and reupholstered.

I will be removing the body from the frame, so that I can throughly pressure wash the frame inside and out, then make new copper-nickel brake and fuel lines that mimic the original. I will check the condition of the rear axle and perform any required repairs and service as needed. Likewise, the brakes will be completely freshened up. I've already ordered new shoes and hardware, wheel and master cylinder rebuild kits, as well as hoses. The suspension looks surprisingly good, including the rear leaf spring bushings as well as front sway bar bushings. If the ball joints check out ok, I will likely leave the suspension alone for now.

The engine and trans will be thoroughly pressure washed as well, then disassembled only as required for the replacement of gaskets and seals, but otherwise left alone. I will surely rebuild the carburetor, as well as give the required attention to the distributor, fuel pump, etc. as required to ensure proper running and reliability.

As far as wiring goes, I am very likely going to use a new harness kit from the likes of Ron Francis or American Autowire, as I have used such kits in the past with much success. I am not as concerned about strict originality as much as I am reliability, ease of installation and service, as well as cost. I have not yet decided on the matters of 6 volt vs. 12 volt, nor alternator vs. generator, but I do know that if I go 12 volt I will need a voltage reducer for the gauges and such, as well as a ballast resistor for the ignition. I used a 12 volt source the other day to run the engine, with a ballast resistor hooked up for the ignition, and it worked well.

At the end of the day, I know that I will likely have more money into the car than I can get back out of it when done, and certainly a lot of time, but this will be a labor of love. I did not want to see this car end up needlessly in a junkyard, which is likely where it was headed considering its condition.. but the body us just so solid and rust free, so much of the trim is straight and nice, and now that I have seen the engine run, I know I'm doing the right thing with this car. My goal is to make it safely drivable, enjoy it over the summer and take it to some car shows (including Hot August Nights in Reno, which I am not far from), then depending on how much I like the car, probably get more serious about doing some paint and interior work over next winter. I am already enjoying the process with this car, as I most often do with each new project I take on. I do look forward to talking to a lot of folks out there who will surely ask me what it is, having never seen one before!

r1lark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 380
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: A tale of two Manhattans, and one first-time Kaiser owner...
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2020, 05:44:44 AM »
Great pics and description! The car looks very rust-free even after sitting outside for so many years and being inhabited by all those critters. 
Paul
Winston-Salem NC
Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at:  www.studebakerskytop.com

ForgottenTwoManhattans

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Re: A tale of two Manhattans, and one first-time Kaiser owner...
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2020, 11:06:51 AM »
Great pics and description! The car looks very rust-free even after sitting outside for so many years and being inhabited by all those critters.

Indeed, it is remarkably rust free all throughout! That's one of the reasons I just couldn't pass it up. Mostly straight and solid with all intact trim, reasonably straight bumpers, etc.. The mechanical aspects don't phase me, but I don't like getting into serious rust repair, nor do I want to spend years tracking down impossible to find parts and trim. I hemmed and hawed about it for a couple days before buying it, but what made the decision for me was jacking it up and finding no rust in the floors or rockers or anything underneath, and the crank turned easily by hand. Figured it'd be worth the chance!

ForgottenTwoManhattans

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Re: A tale of two Manhattans, and one first-time Kaiser owner...
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2020, 11:30:25 AM »
A minor update here.. I found a potential reason why this car was parked all those years ago.. The clutch was completely oil soaked and worn down to rivets on the flywheel side. The flywheel and pressure plate were severely hot spotted, and the flywheel has noticeable grooves in it from the rivets. This thing would have slipped like crazy, and if it worked at all it would have chattered like crazy as well. So I bet that's why they parked it.

I have not bee able to source a new clutch and pressure plate thus far, but a shop a couple hours away in Sacramento can reline my clutch disc as well as resurface and rebuild my pressure plate, all for about $160 out the door, so I'm very likely going to go that route. Then I just have to hope the flywheel has enough meat left to be safely machined.

The T86E transmission itself appears to be in fine shape. After pressure washing, I removed the top plate and inspected inside. All gears and synchros appear to be in good shape, no excessive wear. It operates smoothly by hand in all gears, freewheels as expected with overdrive on, everything works as expected with overdrive on or off, and the solenoid, governor and switch all seem to work as they should. I'm going to reseal it, renew the clutch and I will hopefully be all good there!
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 11:32:02 AM by ForgottenTwoManhattans »

ForgottenTwoManhattans

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Re: A tale of two Manhattans, and one first-time Kaiser owner...
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2020, 11:32:35 AM »
The transmission:
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 11:39:17 AM by ForgottenTwoManhattans »

kaiserfrazerlibrary

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3005
  • KFOCI Historian
    • AOL Instant Messenger - none
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - none
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: A tale of two Manhattans, and one first-time Kaiser owner...
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2020, 01:28:22 PM »
New members to the KFOCI (not the Forum) better known as the Kaiser-Frazer Owners Club International get a New Member Packet that should include a CD called KFOCI HANDBOOK.  If you look at the Table of Contents you will find a section on 1953 model year Kaiser-Frazer products.  There is a listing for the 1953 Kaiser Manhattan that has information on the car including paint & upholstery items and both dealer and retail pricing for cars and equipment (among other things).  You can join on the club website or you can contact the Club Secretary, Membership Manager or me (I'm the club historian) for more information.  The names and other information can be found on the club website. 

konrad

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 385
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: A tale of two Manhattans, and one first-time Kaiser owner...
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2020, 02:22:59 PM »
New members to the KFOCI (not the Forum) better known as the Kaiser-Frazer Owners Club International get a New Member Packet that should include a CD called KFOCI HANDBOOK.  If you look at the Table of Contents you will find a section on 1953 model year Kaiser-Frazer products.  There is a listing for the 1953 Kaiser Manhattan that has information on the car including paint & upholstery items and both dealer and retail pricing for cars and equipment (among other things).  You can join on the club website or you can contact the Club Secretary, Membership Manager or me (I'm the club historian) for more information.  The names and other information can be found on the club website.

Jack, I have to tell you that the history of these cars has really intrigued me.  Prior to finding our Kaiser, I knew of the existence of Kaiser-Fazer, but nothing else about them.  The more I dig into the history, the more curious (and voracious for info) I become.  Recently got a copy of the Kaiser-Frazer Photo Archive (Foster & Tilden) and in the first 20 pages learned so much I didn't already know from my online searches...

Thanks for all you do to keep this history alive!  I plan to buy many more of the books on this history (including yours) in the coming months.  :)
51 Kaiser Deluxe

rrdcorvair

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: A tale of two Manhattans, and one first-time Kaiser owner...
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2020, 05:32:27 PM »
We have some spare clutch parts, I have sent a PM.

konrad

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 385
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: A tale of two Manhattans, and one first-time Kaiser owner...
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2020, 01:18:23 PM »
I have not bee able to source a new clutch and pressure plate thus far...

Some clutch parts available here Forgotten:

Pressure Plate:  http://kfparts.com/store/product/208630/

Friction Disc:  http://kfparts.com/store/product/213068/
51 Kaiser Deluxe

ForgottenTwoManhattans

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Re: A tale of two Manhattans, and one first-time Kaiser owner...
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2020, 09:27:49 PM »
I have not bee able to source a new clutch and pressure plate thus far...

Some clutch parts available here Forgotten:

Pressure Plate:  http://kfparts.com/store/product/208630/

Friction Disc:  http://kfparts.com/store/product/213068/

Thanks.. I saw those in my search. I can't really justify spending more than double to get a relined clutch disc and rebuilt pressure plate through them when I can have it done (somewhat) locally and likely get it back much faster to boot, still using USA made friction material and American labor. Unless there was a significant difference in quality, in which case I would always choose the higher quality part, but I don't suspect there is any appreciable difference between them.

r1lark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 380
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: A tale of two Manhattans, and one first-time Kaiser owner...
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2020, 08:24:33 AM »

Thanks.. I saw those in my search. I can't really justify spending more than double to get a relined clutch disc and rebuilt pressure plate through them when I can have it done (somewhat) locally and likely get it back much faster to boot, still using USA made friction material and American labor. Unless there was a significant difference in quality, in which case I would always choose the higher quality part, but I don't suspect there is any appreciable difference between them.

Plus.......you know that the parts you removed from the car will fit back correctly.  :)
Paul
Winston-Salem NC
Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at:  www.studebakerskytop.com

boatingbill

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 495
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: A tale of two Manhattans, and one first-time Kaiser owner...
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2020, 10:51:50 AM »
Glad to see people like you are still saving these great automobiles ! My dad started driving a Frazier in 1951 and I started my driving my 1951 Kaiser Deluxe in 1960.