Brake booster system possibility

[konrad]

So this is for Willys and Jeep, but given it crosses over those years that KF owned Willys, what's the possibility this unit could be made to work on a 51 Kaiser?

https://www.kaiserwillys.com/brake-booster-kit-with-vacuum-tank-fits-41-66-jeep-willys

[DTort96646]

That is a remote mount brake booster kit. The booster does not mount where the master cylinder is. This kit will work on basically on any vehicle with hydraulic brakes and a vacuum source. I am sure  this kit will reduce the pedal effort required to stop, but don't expect great results. This is similar to the Hydra Vac brake systems used in some trucks and when power brakes first came out on American and some foreign vehicles. The main difference is the size of the booster. The bigger the booster the more stopping power.

[konrad]

Dtort...thanks!  In searching the forum on this subject I came across your post on adding power brakes to your 51, which set me to searching for such an option for mine.  Would that I were as mechanically inclined as you. 

My biggest beef with my beastie is the braking.  I had the brakes checked out and they are fine, but I certainly have to anticipate stopping with this car, as it does not even have the response that my 62 plymouth had...even when you practically stand on them.

At any rate, do you think a unit like the one linked to above would help?

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Konrad, you need to ask Kaiser-Willys if their kit is the same thing as the Power Brake Kit Willys P/N. 907996.  This kit was a vacuum booster unit that would turn the braking system on 1950-55 Kaiser and Willys models into power braking systems.  It is noted in Volume 4 #1 on page 4 (back cover of the issue) .  There were two other supplemental instllation upda tes for the assembly which are critical to sussessful operation and preventing system damage.   

Copies of the pages from the various issues of WILLYS SERVICE & PARTS NEWS will be provided to club members (you need to provide me with member number) email me at my historian address off the KFOCI Website.  This kind of thing is an example of stuff club members do for other club members.  Being a member of the forum is not the same thing as being a member of the KFOCI.

[MarkH]

Your observation is a common issue vintage car owners mention in magazine write-ups on their cars. Two issues are the newer shoe material isn't as "grippy" as the asbestos stuff, although a couple shoe reliners supposedly have comparable material. The other is that practically every other car surrounding you in traffic these days is equipped with power disc brakes and the standard braking norm now is much better.
I converted my Aero to front disc brakes without trying to add a booster or changing the master cylinder, and am very pleased with the results. My three teenage grandsons have also been driving it and none have even mentioned anything about the brakes because they work very similar to what they're used to driving. Even non powered discs & calipers are a big upgrade. All my parts are off the parts house shelf, only the mounting bracket is custom. A guy named Scarebird in WA state specializes in making front disc brake brackets for vintage cars. Maybe he has something for your car.

[DTort96646]

Konrad, I began searching for a power brake option for the same reason as you, poor or let's say weak brake performance. Goggle or Bing search for remote power brake booster kits. You should find a VH 44 series of kits. I think there are 2 sizes  available. Remember the bigger the better for the size and weight of your Kaiser. These are the same type of kit you saw on the kaiserwillys site. I chose a different option and went with a tandem master cylinder and 8" booster for safety and comfort, but it was not as easy to install as the remote booster kit. I still use a 1" bore master cylinder, but it has a front chamber and rear chamber for the hydraulic brake part of the system.

[pjkaiser]

When I did the brakes on my Traveler last year, I arced the shoes to match the drum diameter and I have absolutely no problems with braking.   It's amazing the difference from what I had before!!    Arcing the shoes gives you close to 100% contact with the drum.

[konrad]

When I did the brakes on my Traveler last year, I arced the shoes to match the drum diameter and I have absolutely no problems with braking.   It's amazing the difference from what I had before!!    Arcing the shoes gives you close to 100% contact with the drum.

Just spoke with my mechanic and he has an arcing unit, and said that would be the cheapest option of the ones listed in this thread...so I think I'll try that first, evaluate the difference with current iffy braking, and go from there.

Many thanks for the suggestion PJ! 

[konrad]

Konrad, you need to ask Kaiser-Willys if their kit is the same thing as the Power Brake Kit Willys P/N. 907996.  This kit was a vacuum booster unit that would turn the braking system on 1950-55 Kaiser and Willys models into power braking systems.  It is noted in Volume 4 #1 on page 4 (back cover of the issue) .  There were two other supplemental instllation upda tes for the assembly which are critical to sussessful operation and preventing system damage.   

Copies of the pages from the various issues of WILLYS SERVICE & PARTS NEWS will be provided to club members (you need to provide me with member number) email me at my historian address off the KFOCI Website.  This kind of thing is an example of stuff club members do for other club members.  Being a member of the forum is not the same thing as being a member of the KFOCI.

Hi Jack,

I am a current member of the KFOCI and I plan to continue being a member for the foreseeable future...after I become room temperature that may then become problematic, however... 

At any rate, see my previous post for the direction I'm currently taking on this issue.  If that solution proves less than satisfactory, I will again look into the option of a booster.  Many thanks for the info and I will contact you for that supplemental info should I eventually decide to go that route.

[pjkaiser]

I started driving my Darrin and found the brakes difficult to stop.  I didn't arc them at the time since there worked fine 6 years ago when I was driving it before the restoration, what a mistake!!

I arced the fronts and what a difference.  Pictures tell the story!!

pic 1 arcing machine, this is what they look like!  You must first use a micrometer on the Drum for the actual diameter, then set the machine up for that diameter.  Then you slowly arc the shoes till they match the drums - 100% contact!!!
pic 2 first pass shows a high spot in the middle.
pic 3 shows only about 1/4 of the shoe making contact.
pic 4 after taking a few more thousands off, we are getting close!
pic 5 100% contact. They will act like you have power brakes!!!   

The machines are hard to find, however, they work great.

[pjkaiser]

I was hoping to hear back from Konrad about what happened to his brake issues after posting my pictures on arcing of the brake
shoes???

[konrad]

Hi pj,

I just picked the car up from my mechanic yesterday and kind of posted about this in my thread about a new problem.

Much, much better braking now that the shoes have been arced...many thanks for the suggestion!!!

[pjkaiser]

I hoped the pictures would help you (and others) understand what needed to be done and the type of equipment doing the job.  I have seen this thread on poor braking, after changing shoes, before on the forum and wanted to address the issue.
I knew that would help and be much, much cheaper than adding power brakes.   Most shoes are oversized now, which necessitates arcing of the shoes.  Unfortunately, most modern mechanics haven't heard or seen this type of equipment as it hasn't been used/needed in 50 + years.

I'm glad you are happy with the result!

[r1lark]

Yep, arcing the shoes makes a big difference. I do my own with coarse sandpaper on the inside of the drum. Carefully 'sand' the shoe material back and forth, keeping the shoe flat against the drum & sandpaper. I use a spray bottle of water with a little dish soap added to keep the dust contained. When you are done, clean everything with brake cleaner onto paper towel or shop towel and dispose of the towel and debris.

I've considered gluing the sandpaper to the drum (temporarily of course  ) to make the process a little easier, but I haven't really had an issue with the sandpaper staying put especially when wet. Hold the paper with one hand to keep it from sliding, and use the other hand for the shoe.

[pjkaiser]

I like the ingenuity!!  Well done