If only it was true....

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

If only the prices asked by some people for K-F cars, parts and collectables (like the thermometer for Solvay Motors) were actual regular market prices.  4,000 or more for the 1948 Frazer Manhattan (at least I think that thing is a Manhattn) advertised on eBay, or in the area of collectables, that Solvay Motors thermometer. The reasons given by sellers include

1.  THEY DON'T MAKE THEM ANY MORE  Check the OLD CARS PRICE GUIDES  They have not made Durants since the end of the 1920's (or thereabouts) and fewer of them were made than K-F cars) yet they are nowhere near high 5 or 6  figure prices in condition 1 or 2 contidion.

2.  THERE ARE FEW IF ANY AROUD  Who's fault is that.  If people with cars (and I do know that many owners do this) would take them to their local general old car shows or events (other than street rod/dragster/custom events or single-make specialty events like all-Ford shows) people would know they are still around and if people checked on their prices and parts availability would find that prices paid for stuff is MUCH lower than expected

3.  THE PERSON I BOUGHT THE CAR (or parts or collectable) FROM SAID IT WAS WORTH THAT MUCH IF NOT A LOT MORE.  And how many weeks, months (or even years) had the person tried to sell it at? 

I put this up here because well over half the members of the Forum are not members of the KFOCI and, according to the November 2020 Monthly Bulletin (which already went out in email form and was mailed at the printer recently), only KFOCI members will be allowed to access the new Forum on the new club website that is expected to be up and running in the first quarter of 2021 with January 2021 as the target date.  Also, be advised that when the current website gets replaced any info on this Forum platform will be lost, so if there is anything in particular people want to save, now is the time to do it.

[Fid]

It is interesting.  A few months ago, a '51/'52 Henry J speedometer/cluster went unsold on ebay for $30.  I paid $25 for one last spring and had 3 to choose from at the time.  Then... earlier this month, someone offered one up for sale on ebay for $200, a number the seller likely pulled out of the sky, and then within days there were three more listed from $200 - $350!  Likely following the lead of the first one, which by the way, has no bids after three times around listing it.   
I don't think the sellers do any real research to determine prices.
What they need to know regarding Henry J gauge cluster is these cars have been and are still getting made into customs at a much larger rate than those being restored which means these clusters are abundant and will be readily available for a long time to come.   Someone that would pay $200 for one likely has not yet been born.

[MarkH]

I put this up here because well over half the members of the Forum are not members of the KFOCI and, according to the November 2020 Monthly Bulletin (which already went out in email form and was mailed at the printer recently), only KFOCI members will be allowed to access the new Forum on the new club website that is expected to be up and running in the first quarter of 2021 with January 2021 as the target date.  Also, be advised that when the current website gets replaced any info on this Forum platform will be lost, so if there is anything in particular people want to save, now is the time to do it.

Well, the longtime dream will finally come to pass......utter exclusivity of the forum.
And then for good measure....... losing all the searchable info archived here.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

The current platform (which was implemented during the time of Jim Lape's Presidency) is run by a Canadian company called Wild Apricot (which I will refer to here as WA).  It was pricey as it continued a lot of features we had to pay for, but never had a need to use.  WA also periodically raised prices and it appears they had the right to do so at will (didn't anybody read their contract?) as a result we're paying more than double each month compared to the cost of the new platform.

While we can get migration of member information to the new platform,  the Forum as it currently exists will not make a move.  I believe that this reflects the work and $$$ required to make such a move.  The current Forum membership contains a fairly small percentage of club members and, I'm sorry folks, this organization cannot afford to carry the non-members (and according to the working papers of the KFOCI we should not be carring non-members). 

If any non-club members want to continue using the forum, they can join the KFOCI as an Associate Member for $5.00 a year.  Associate members have the rights and privledges of regular members EXCEPT receiving club publications either by e-mail (at the new Digital rate) or snail mail.

[MarkH]

 The current Forum membership contains a fairly small percentage of club members and, I'm sorry folks, this organization cannot afford to carry the non-members (and according to the working papers of the KFOCI we should not be carring non-members). 

I've seen mention of this before and it's one point I'm "fuzzy" on understanding. How a will a non member viewing the site accrue an additional cost the members will have to "carry".

[Carpenter]

be advised that when the current website gets replaced any info on this Forum platform will be lost, so if there is anything in particular people want to save, now is the time to do it.

Does this mean that the forum will start from scratch and all the helpful information that has accumulated through the years will not be available?

[Gordie]

Our National president and most of the club officers do not like or want the forum and they prefer the K-F Facebook site.  Such a waste that we have filled the forum pages with great retrievable information that they will just delete.  I guess that the many members that have contributed for ten years may as well delete their own thousands of answers as they mean nothing to the club.  I never thought that this club would do something like this.  The new forum will have no meaning or purpose without a history.

[konrad]

So all the great info from here, all the searchable posts for parts identification, fixes, interchange options is to be lost in moving to the new forum?

In that case I would say there's really no reason to start a new forum.  I can say that from experience.  I was a member of a forum dedicated to another hobby for many years.  In a dispute with the host provider, the host shut the old forum down and a couple decades or more of info on that hobby (all the same sorts of info that can be found here, just related to a different sort of mechanical devices) disappeared into the ether.

A new forum was created, with the forum owners hosting it personally, so such a thing could not happen again, but all the history was lost and gone forever.  The forum never recovered, quickly became a shell of its former self, with people drifting away.  It's now a shell of its former self, sparsely populated, very little of the original history, hints, tips, info having ever been recreated.

If the info here will not be saved/migrated...might as well just put a stake in its heart and close the coffin.

Sorry for the doom and gloom, but that's my perspective based on personal experience, and the forum I speak of once had tens of thousands of members, thousands of whom were active on a weekly basis, and it was once the largest forum for the particular hobby it addressed on the interwebz.  If it couldn't recover from that, I have little hope for much future for this one.

[MarkH]

So all the great info from here, all the searchable posts for parts identification, fixes, interchange options is to be lost in moving to the new forum?

In that case I would say there's really no reason to start a new forum.  I can say that from experience.  I was a member of a forum dedicated to another hobby for many years.  In a dispute with the host provider, the host shut the old forum down and a couple decades or more of info on that hobby (all the same sorts of info that can be found here, just related to a different sort of mechanical devices) disappeared into the ether.

A new forum was created, with the forum owners hosting it personally, so such a thing could not happen again, but all the history was lost and gone forever.  The forum never recovered, quickly became a shell of its former self, with people drifting away.  It's now a shell of its former self, sparsely populated, very little of the original history, hints, tips, info having ever been recreated.

If the info here will not be saved/migrated...might as well just put a stake in its heart and close the coffin.

Sorry for the doom and gloom, but that's my perspective based on personal experience, and the forum I speak of once had tens of thousands of members, thousands of whom were active on a weekly basis, and it was once the largest forum for the particular hobby it addressed on the interwebz.  If it couldn't recover from that, I have little hope for much future for this one.

I could easily corroborate this type of outcome with a similar experience.....but in a word..........agreed.

[konrad]

I could easily corroborate this type of outcome with a similar experience.....but in a word..........agreed.

To be honest, it was the great info on these cars that I found here that convinced me to join KFOCI...it was a mature forum dedicated to their owners, old info that could still be found, current owners willing to help guide new devotees to what was needed, and I have not been let down by the current membership in the questions I've asked.  All of you with great knowledge of these cars have helped me immensely since I bought my Kaiser.

So much history...how many posts on this forum by members now gone will be lost when it disappears...to say nothing of the current members who may decline to repost again, info they've already imparted...because...why?  It's all ephemeral...why bother.

History is a thing to be preserved, not jettisoned due to monetary imperatives...but what do I know...I'm just a noob...

But, here is my prediction based on the abandonment of this database of info...

The new forum will be a disaster...members will sign up but posting will be sparse.

Membership will decline...as I mentioned, the forum was a big selling point on me joining KFOCI.  If there was no forum with all the info here when I joined, what would be my impetus to join?  Because I could get quarterlies and newsletters?  Please...

I need info that helps me maintain and keep my KF vehicle on the road...when I push the gas pedal I want it to go, when I hit the brake I want it to stop.  Knowing what KF offered to the dealers in '51 is interesting to me on a historical level, but it does not give me that bit of info from a post 3 years ago on the forum that explains why my carb is behaving badly, nor where I can get a rebuild kit, nor who can rebuild it for me if I can't.

I'll play along with this foolishness for a bit, but I will infer that within a year I will find the best info on KF vehicles with a google search, and the KFOCI website will be a wasteland...

And the loss!!!!  To owners, old...and new as they come along...the loss!!!!

Throw the baby out with the bathwater...

And why would I renew my membership without a valid database of info on these cars, if this one disappears?  Or a relatively vibrant group of folks (as I have found here) willing to help?  Because they will disperse when all their hard work has been expunged.  Why repeat effort and work that has been deemed without merit, not worthy of salvage?  Hell, just send that old car to the crusher...

[Roadmaster49]

Why would anyone become a full member if $5 gets them access to the club as an e member?  Does $5 get you the e Monthly  bulletins? 


How much would it cost to migrate all of the data to a new server?

[Roadmaster49]

  Hell, just send that old car to the crusher...
[/quote]
The club is on life support and likely wont make it.  The AACA hosts a KF section. It could be expanded at no cost to the club.

[Bob G]

Back to migrating the data to a new server. Can we capture the existing site data and make it a standalone reference?

[Carpenter]

Information on here is better than a monster sized library.  Why destroy all of that information?

[Roadmaster49]

Who are you guys asking?   The Historian?  His wife the Bulletin Editor?  The forum is dead.  In 2 months.  The club is moving in a different direction.  The current President and his minions, and they might be perfectly nice people - are not on the forum and never have been.  Old timers rarely are.  Thankfully some of our old timers are, but overall when I was trying to buy a KF in 2019, my posting in the Bulletin had a lot more interest than on the forum.  10 to 1.

They are not on the Internet and good for them.  I spend too much time there (Internet)

What I found were some sellers, aged, who wanted $30,000 for their cars, despite the fact they paid $1000 for them years ago.  or got them off used car lots for $350.   I am painting a broad brush but c'mon. 

2 of those guys have since passed on.   My budget was $15,000 for 2 cars.  I purchased Cadillacs instead.  Now I am no longer a member of any club.