pea****** blue paint

[pop7705]

Does anyone know what if any is the Dupont corresponding code for the 1953 Kaiser Pea****** Blue paint?  Sorry, part of the word is considered taboo by this chat site, so think of a colorful bird and you'll figure out the whole word.

[Jim B PEI]

Sorry, offhand no. If it was a Studebaker colour, then there are sites which give the exact formulae to match both colour and effect. The best I can suggest--and there may be a Kaiser site with the same info somewhere-- is a company like   www.tpcglobal.com/colorlibrary   which will match historical colours from the Ditzler/PPG paint chip codes ie, Pea**** Blue is Ditzler 10012 and was available in either DQE quickset enamel or DAL automotive lacquer.

The new PPG acrylic enamel paint in either "Restoration Shop" or "PPG Del-star" grades (ie, Del-star costs $300 gallon vers RS $100 gallon) and the associated hardeners and thinners/reducers are price quoted by gallon/quart etc. I have never used them so I cannot comment on their colour accuracy.

Is there a reason it has to be Dupont as such?

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Hey, Studebaker People, THERE IS A KAISER-FRAZER PEA****** BLUE!

It is a 1953 model year color, and appears on Sheet #2 of DuPont's 1953 Kaiser-Frazer Color Bulletin #7, issued April 15 1953

The problem is that the DuPont numbers don't work any more.  About the only people who can make the original color is, as Jim pointed out, PPG.  The PPG Jobber needs to get the mixing information from the corporate color library.  They scan the company's original color sample which is set up with a computer spectrometer that works the calculations.  There is no additional charge for the information but the jobber does not give it out to the customer..the assumption is that the jobber gets the order for paint. 

Pea****** Blue was used on monotone (single color) cars and two-tone selections during the model year.

I can't dig out the Kaiser-Frazer Sales Corporation Confidential Bulletins right now.  They are packed as part of a truck load (literally) of factory materials I am taking to display at the 2010 Midwest Division Fall Meet (and I'm still leaving a lot of stuff at home).

[Fid]

Well, let me answer your question. My '53 Henry J is peac0ck blue and I had some paint matched for it in 2001 and it was perfect. I have the can here.  The PPG color number is DCC190074 (Atlantis Blue)
What looks like a formula is found on the side of the can -
DMC904  62.2
DMC900  78.8
DMC903 106.8
DMC923 124.5
DMC936 182.6

See if this helps.  The color matches the dash and door sills (which still wear their original paint) perfectly
Here's a picture of the car. See for yourself

[Jim B PEI]

Thanks you Mr Fideler!

What I meant about pages for Studebaker colour formulae is something like this page:
http://www.raylinrestoration.com/TechnicalPages/PaintForms.htm

What the Kaiser-Frazer-Willys folk is a page something like this, accessible somehow perhaps through the home page of the KFOCI site.  That way, anyone who has done a match or has received information one way or another over the years could add it in. It would be a useful addition to the documentation for the club, especially if a modern off the shelf paint is an EXACT match, such as that 93 Ford Ranger truck green is for a 50s Studebaker green, or the Ford Wimbledon White is for a particular white used by Studebaker in the 60's

[mbflemingkf]

Jim, I agree with you that it would be really nice to have a section like this accessible by club members.  I'm not sure how it would work exactly; there are a lot of bottom feeders who access this site and extra benefits like this might encourage (sly grin) them to join the club.  Just my 2 cents.

[Jim B PEI]

Hey Mike, if we put *ahem!* >>useful information<< like this on a *special website* that only current members of the (almost, alas!) secret KFOCI society had the secret decoder rings to gain access to, it might make it easier to get members to re-new LOL!!

[HJ-ETEX]

So - if you think you have an exact match for a factory color, it should be guarded information? Well, what ever you come up with, people will disagree with you. That includes 'basic' colors.

[Fid]

You have to be careful too. When I was looking for paint for my Cape Verde Green '52 Henry J Vagabond, a shop here took the paint code, 325 and ordered some. Looked right too but the problem is, and I knew this, the car had already been repainted using a "close match" - the hue was pretty good but it has a bit more metallic (a 1990s metallic as opposed to a 1950s metallic).  I had to have the actual paint that was on the car scanned and computer matched which means it is not Cape Verde Green but some companies closest match to it. If someone put a formula such as that on here, and someone else used it, it would be wrong and would not match. Or if someone tried to touch up a car that had already been repainted with a slightly different formula, and was not as knowledgeable as I was about it, it would not match. I do find it interesting that the one fellow was able to get the original mixed by using just the paint code on a 57 year old data tag.

[HJ-ETEX]

Lowell: What you say is close to what I was thinking. There was a 51 Club Coupe at a National that was 'Carribean Coral' I thought the paint was may be about a 90% match - the door sills had not been repainted so I was able to point out the difference. It was most noticeable in sunlight. But the owner had paid a bunch of money on the paint so IT COULD NOT BE WRONG. I had no arguments about the quality, just the color match although you would think a good paint shop would do the door sills as well.   

[Fid]

Exactly what I was getting at Tom when saying caution should be exercised. 
I can say, with confidence, the formula I posted for Peac0ck blue is what I'd call a perfect match.
On the Cape Verde green car, you can see the difference, although it is slight, on the door sills and engine compartment. I have no idea how the previous owner had it "matched." The paint on the green car is very good yet which is why I had to have the paint computer matched for the Continental Kit when I installed it last summer. The computer match is perfect.

[Jim B PEI]

Sorry if my suggestion was interpreted as anything other than tongue very firmly in cheek!

About the site I linked to, they are professional Studebaker restoration people, and own their own Studebakers as well. The site does give some of the background on some of their posted formulations and how they are to be adjusted, for metallic effects as an example, and how they matched colours, using what (sometimes multiple) sources.

Its often tricky even with white. The particular off-white wheel colour used up to 63, (and how that differs from 64 and the 65-66 wheel white), which is even different from the white used on the hubcaps on my 63 Wagonaire, which differs again from the Ermine white which is the original colour of my car, and different again from Astra White of a 64 I'm looking at buying. So, looking at my car from the side (once it is repainted), the body/wheel/whitewall/hubcap would all be different shades of white! Dizzying!
Here is car on Ebay that is more or less exactly like MY car should be, inside and out, except that it has the Deluxe hubcaps without the white paint on them. Needless to say, I grabbed lots of the pictures as aides memoires.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270631548953&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT#v4-42
I also followed it up on the Studebaker Forum to get multiple inputs. Ray and Lin wanted to avoid some of the pitfalls as pointed out here about an owner having spent a lot of money and not getting the right match...and not, therefore, in a frame of mind to accept outside opinions.

The few Kaisers and Studebakers in my home town when I was growing up happened to be 'interesting' colours, and I studied them closely. ie, the difference between 53 Stardust and 54 Palm Beach Ivories (I much prefer Stardust), Jade Tint, that beautiful 51 Frazer mid green metallic (Tropical?), Copperdust, and the Maroon Velvet of the 53 Dragons, and of course, Studebaker Black Cherry.

[Fid]

Jim, I found your comments interesting and something to consider. I was only pointing out some things that first time restorers or buyers may overlook. If someone is having a car completely repainted, it's not as important as someone who's trying to match existing paint.  Two different things. The guy that had the Cape Verde green paint mixed based on paint code on the data tag just did it to see how it would look if he had it mixed based on that. If was having the whole car redone, I'd do that for sure!  But... the same guy told me the only way he could paint the Continental Kit to match was to "haze it in" or "fade it in to match" which I knew was not true!  Needless to say, I found someone else - a shop that did a computer match of what was on the car and it's perfect. I don't know what that other guy was thinking but I don't think I'll be having him do any paint work for me that's for sure!
To get back to the original poster's question, I still say that Peac0ck blue info I posted is exactly what you want.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Sincere efforts are made repeatedly to match paint by using eye matches or an older chip to a current chip.  Unfortunately, paint changes with age and exposure to weather.  Also, remember that from time to time, paint colors are dropped by paint companies especially with the EPA's continuing "helpfulness" when it comes to what goes into paint.   

[Jim B PEI]

Eye matches, especially over time, just don't work all that well. Which it is important to preserve the formulae of particular shades, ie 110 measures of white base 40.5 measures of 3082 red, 37 of 4017 yellow, 3 of black etc or something like this.