Judging - Post 2010 National

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

I spoke to Mike Knittel at the Midwest Division meet about the judging situation.  If I understood the situation correctly, others will draw up the standards...my only involvement would be to "vet" their information for accuracy and add things that may be missing.   OK, if I ever get anything to review I will review it.  Otherwise, I have no idea what is going into this and will not endorse anything that I have not seen, researched or otherwise verified.

As for various existing issues, I have a comment and questions.  Using the column in the just-mailed issue of HEMMINGS CLASSIC CAR (with the Ford body drop station on the cover & the 1959 Edesl station wagon as one of the featured cars), I have to ask how one knows for certain if what they have is a truly unrestored, "unfixed" original vehicle?  Have ALL the prior owners signed off on statements attesting to same or is someone going on verbal hearesay?  The illustration in the Darrin parts book seems to me to show the handle pointing forward (page 62).   Various factory Press Release photos show the door pointing forward as does the ads and showroom literature.  The drawing that goes with a Willys Motors service memo from June 1954 shows the handle pointing forward.  What FACTORY DOCUMENT or FACTORY ISSUED DRAWING shows it pointing backwards?   Any takers?

[Gordie]

In other words the Club's version of judging guidelines is never going to happen.  Who has the research material and the knowledge and the time to do it and why?  Judging guidelines are already done.  I propose that we finish what we have and make it available to members who want them.  It will slowly be fine tuned and will be the best thing that the members will ever have for their cars.  We need them now and not in twenty years.  What can we do to get this thing finished?  If the judging committee wants to come up with their own down the line that's ok but we all know that it will never happen.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

The material involved will be called "Restoration Guidelines" rather than "Judging Standards".  Mike made a point that club members are not going to be required to follow any or all of the information (like the old disclaimer about new car dealers in TX following factory policies like MSRP).  This is what I figured from the start. 

As long as the information is captured in a way that both people and judges can use it to evaluate an automobile, it will help. 

[Gordie]

Does the Club currently have any Restoration Guidelines other than the judging forms?  They certainly don't have pages and pages of guidelines for each year and model of our cars.  We really do not need anything from the judging committee for us to finish what has been started. By not requiring cars to follow the recommended guidelines just means that they do not have any documentation!  What can we do to get this job going??

[joefrazer]

Ok, here's a thought...

Instead of having judging at meets, set up "stations" where owners could run their cars past a group of people who would examine the car against a set of standards and then make recommendations as to how to bring the car up to factory spec. Yes, it still requires a set of standards for each model and year, but would eliminate the competetive piece that judging brings with it. You'd now have folks looking to improve their cars against how they first left the factory. You would also eliminate the need to have judges who are "all knowing", because their job would now be relegated to matching the current condition of a component to that of a standard that could include photos where applicable.

Just a thought that's sure to stir more conversation!

[Jim B PEI]

I LOVE the last two posts IMMENSELY!!!

This is exactly what is needed until such time as the powers that be can get over themselves, and actually make a decision.

I attended the annual meet when it was held in Vermont several years ago, and frankly, I was deeply appalled at the actions of the PTB about proposed changes to the framework of the Club.

[Gordie]

Ok, here's a thought...

Instead of having judging at meets, set up "stations" where owners could run their cars past a group of people who would examine the car against a set of standards and then make recommendations as to how to bring the car up to factory spec. Yes, it still requires a set of standards for each model and year, but would eliminate the competetive piece that judging brings with it. You'd now have folks looking to improve their cars against how they first left the factory. You would also eliminate the need to have judges who are "all knowing", because their job would now be relegated to matching the current condition of a component to that of a standard that could include photos where applicable.

Just a thought that's sure to stir more conversation!

That is a good idea but I doubt if the Club would eliminate judging as too many members live for trophies and they really are important for valuing quality and correctly restored cars.  We really do want the trophies to be meaningful and to go to deserving cars which would raise the standard of the judging.  I think that when the guidelines are available everyone will want a set for his car and it would be a good opportunity for the owners to discuss issues with the owners of similar cars.

[Gordie]

Hi Jim, thanks for taking on the banner and running with it.  That is just what we need to keep this project moving.  Jack has done a wonderful job of getting all of this research 90% along and we as members need to finish it up or it will never be done.  We can all see that the Club and judging committee have no interest in a project of this size.  I will contribute what I can on the cars that I am most knowledgeable on and I hope that you guys will too.  When these guidelines are finished they will be the bible for K-F restoration and if a judge is confronted with an item he is not familiar with he had better take a good look at the guidelines!  Hey!  We are the Club!  Let's do it!!!

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

As I noted in the topic about Restoration Guidelines (and that is the correct term for the material, not Judging Standards) I never saw this until the posting.  NOBODY came to me asking for a review.  Until this matter is resolved, people should be advised that I do NOT endorse, support, or otherwise have any involvement in this material.  I did look at the HJ and found several errors and omissions along with a very questionable area of content.

I will of course, help anyone who feels thay got a bad call in judging and if it turns out an error is made, suggest that the car owner seek whatever satisfaction they feel the situation requires.

[Fid]

Jim posted those guidelines asking for people to review them. That was the idea.