Can't get rear brake drums off

[terrymeehan]

I am seeking some advice or know how. I have a Darrin but am posting here because I don't think my problem is Darrin specific and maybe I can get more help/ideas here.
The rear brakes on my Darrin locked up after a 4 month period of no use. I assumed this was that the drums rusted and the shoes were stuck to the drums, but the front brakes were OK. This seemed odd since I would think that why would the both rear freeze up but not either of the fronts. I could not break them free by backing the car up but could move forward a bit. The only way I could get the car out of the garage was to jack up both rear wheels on stands and then drive the rear forward without going through my garage wall. In reverse the wheels would jump but not turn. Eventually, By going forward and applying the brakes and then reverse they freed up enough to get the car to a local shop. With the car on a lift you could turn the rear wheels by hand forward and backward but with a lot of difficulty,. The  were tight. The mechanic tried to pull one of the drums with a brake drum puller but it would not release from the axle shaft. He then checked the adjusters and said they were way to tight. He backed off the adjuster eccentrics and the wheels seemed to free up although there was a high spot on the left rear that you could feel. We decided to leave well enough alone since the rear wheels seemed to now turn freely.

I had the brakes done a couple of years ago with new shoes, wheels cylinders, springs, master cylinder because the wheel cylinders had leaked and ruined the shoes. There is less than 300 miles since the new brakes. We removed a front drum without difficulty to check the front wheel bearings and the brakes looked brand new.

I though I was done, but after returning from the shop and putting the car back in the garage I have the same problem, frozen rear brakes, can't go in reverse. Same routine - jack up the rear onto stands, drive forward and reverse to get the wheels freed up a bit and back to the shop. This time we need to pull the rear drums to see what is going on.

But, the rear drums will not come off. Removed the castle nut and it appears that the shoes are free of the drum because you can rotate the drums by hand without to much effort. The mechanic is worried about mushrooming the axle shafts with the brake drum puller. They are already a little beat up.

Does anyone have any ideas or recommendations on how to get the drums off? The suspicion is that the rear wheel cylinders are not returning and that is what is causing the rear wheels to lock up and so maybe I need to install new wheel cylinders to cure the lock up problem, but we cannot get to them. Maybe I need stainless steel sleeved cylinders? The emergency brake seems to be free. Thanks in advance for any help.

Terry Meehan LM 7135

[Fid]

I have never seen shoes stick to drums on these old cars. Every case I've seen is wheel cylinders.
Wheel cylinders siezing up is a typical problem with old cars that are not driven very often. Especially in parts of the country where there are temperature and humidity extremes.  The original cylinders are cast iron but the pistons are aluminum so if they sit and there's any moisture, you get the electrolysis going and they "weld" together. It can happen in as little as a few months depending on the relative humidity.
I can almost say with certainty that this is the issue you're having.  Last year I had a wheel cylinder that was seized up so badly, I had beat it out using the biggest hammer and drive punch I have and it still was difficult.

As far as removing those hubs goes, they need to be shocked off. A drum puller will not do the job. It's best to use a hub puller like this one -

I've seen this type for sale on ebay a few times.
I connect it, then put a peice of flat iron I have between the axle end and the spindle on the puller (to act as buffer), tighten it good, then hit the end of the puller shaft/spindle with the biggest hammer you've got. You may have to do it a few times but it will come off.

Since it's only the rear wheels, it could also be that your parking brake is stuck. If you don't use the parking brake, then this would not be the case but if you've pulled it then released it, the front cable may have released but the rear could be stuck, hence keeping the shoes spread out against the drums.

[Logan]

Fid's right, I had to whack that puller about 4 times with a small sledge hammer--it came off.  Once you get it fixed--drive it every week!  Best solution to all these problems that come up.

[terrymeehan]

Thanks for the advice. The mechanic did use a hub puller, rather than the drum puller that I mentioned and he did hit the shaft of the puller with a hammer to try to get it free but without the flat stock that was suggested as a buffer. Maybe we need a bigger hammer.

One suggestion I heard from a friend of mine who has been a old car guy for many years is to loosen the castle nuts just a bit, maybe 1/32 and with the cotter pins in place, drive the car and apply the brakes, going forward and reverse.. The heat generated from braking and opportunity for slight movement because of the backed of castle nuts will cause the drum to slightly loosen its grip on the axle. Does this sound reasonable to you guys?

Any suggestions on where I might get new drums and axles if I wind up destroying the ones o the car now?

Thanks

[Jim B PEI]

Quote of the Day. "Maybe we need a bigger hammer. "

Yes, that is why they are called BFH; they also come in the size 'bigger'

I think the process you mention about cornering can help in tough cases.

[Fid]

Loosening the nuts may help but the problem is the key can then move in the slot on the axle and possible "slop" it out a bit. If you don't do it too far, it may help but if you've got the right tools, it will come off. Since the axle is cone shaped, it must be shocked and yes, you've really got to hit it with a BFH and usually more than once.  I forgot to mention - take the castle nut off, then put it back on backwards till it is just flush with the end of the axle. This too, along with the buffer stock, prevents the end of the axle from getting "mushroomed."  It will not come off without hitting it.

[dpledger]

Another approach I've had work a few time son really resistant cases is to Tighten the puller as far as possible, whack, tighten again, and then go away and let it sit for a while. Eventually they seem to spontaneously pop. Patience often beats force.

[Jim B PEI]

That is why it is so important to put the castle nut on backwards, on the threads but NOT screwed down tight: it prevents the end from mushrooming, but more importantly, if you have driven around the block at low speed with several sharp turns left and right, and returned home to put the puller back on and hit it with the BFH, you then go away with it under load, come back every few hours and bang it a few times more, then walk away and do something else..... make sure it is under load....when you least expect it, it will release. Usually at 2:00AM It will make a noise 

The castle nut keeps it from reaching escape velocity when it finally decides to shift, and taking out on its way the NOS 51 Frazer & 54 Manhattan taillights you are storing for a friend's 10 year Pebble Beach restoration projects