1951 Deluxe new engine problem

[JohnMink]

Have 1951 Kaiser, just replaced with rebuilt engine, transmission, new electrical fuel pump and new mechanical fuel pump, rebuilt carbeurator. Starts, idles, and runs cool for as long as you want to let it and going down the road at 40-45 mph, runs and shifts perfect. However, give it a little gas to kick it up to about 50-55, it starts to miss and lose power as if it isn't getting the gas. The carbeurator is not vacuum, car has electric wipers. My mechanic has checked fuel pressure, timing, vacuum advance on the distributor, carbeurator rods, float, everything. Everything checks out perfect. He did say that when the problem starts, the temp gauge goes up, but when he lets up on the speed, the heat goes back to normal and it runs perfect again. Anyone got any ideas Thanks, John

[Fid]

Does the car have a manual trans or a Hydramatic? If manual, does it have overdrive?  Some times the throttle return spring on the firewall can rub against the terminals on the overdrive kickdown switch when the accellerator pedal is at a certain postition. If it does have overdrive, have a look at that.

[joefrazer]

Sounds like the vacuum advance is not working and that's causing a timing issue. When the timing is off, a symptom is an engine that runs hot at road speeds.

[JohnMink]

Thanks for answering. The car is a hydramatic. Larry Barker suggested the vacuum advance so we checked and my mechanic said it tested fine. Is there something we missed on the testing?

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

When was your radiator last cleaned out by a radiator shop?  When was the last time the fuel line from pump to tank was cleaned out and what is condition of the tank for bits of rust and crud?  What pressure do you have the electric pump set for?   How did you check out the vacuum advance?

The temperature indicator could be a false lead;  The instrument cluster is controlled by a small sealed voltage regulator on the back side of the cluster.  If the regulator is acting up or something else is causing a change in the system resistance, certain gauges will indicate different than actual conditions.  I had this problem with my 1951's; when you turned the headlights on at night the temp gage shot up to the high end.  A check with a temp probe in the radiator showed that water temp was normal and check at the cluster turned up the problem with the regulator.  This is not a new thing.  An old issue of either POPULAR SCIENCE or POPULAR MECHANICS had a "Pop's Garage" item on this problem, but the subject car was a Nash.

[fathersondream]

sounds like too much gas or too low timing.

[dpledger]

I've had similar problems which appeared to be fuel related, but turned out to be ignition-once I recall it being a poor connection on the primary wiring to the coil. Could also be anywhere in the wiring that supplies power to the ignition. With a resisty electrical fault things may work all right at low speeds, but at higher when more current is needed due to the faster firing power may become insufficient. As in when the points are closed the reduced current available is no longer sufficient to charge things up adequately because they open again so fast.

[JohnMink]

@KaiserFrazerLibrary - Radiator was flushed and cleaned while the engine was out for replacement. I have owned the car for 2 years, the gas tank is a replacement but I have not had it off the car. While the engine was being replaced, a fuel line extention was added as suggested in the 1953 supplement to reduce vapor lock. I also added an expansion tank for the radiator. The only electrical that was changed was a 6 volt alternator from 5th Avenue Garage. I think the electric fuel pump is set around 6-7 pounds. The mechanic said the mechanical fuel pump didn't seem to be putting out much presssure, but with he electrical backup, it shouldn't matter. Also, he said he tried it with and without the electrical pump, same results. I don't know how he checked out the vacuum advance. He's just taken the carbeurator apart again and found that rods were out of adjustment and the float was a little low. He hasn't test driven again yet as he hasn't had a chance. That was as of yesterday.
Thanks for everyone's suggestions and keep 'em coming! Will forward all info to my mechanic.

[Jim B PEI]

Interesting, keep us informed. If the engine is actually heating up it could be lots of different things, especially if the radiator and engine passages are clear.
I ran across an 'overheating' problem (not seriously high, just moved higher) with one car, not a Kaiser, because the thermostat was missing. There was enough heat transfer through the radiator at lower engine speeds but at higher speeds there wasn't enough restriction to make for an efficient heat transfer through the radiator as the pump moved the water too fast. (The gauge moved immediately when I turned on the heater fan, because that actually removed some of the heat from the system)
Other than that, I would think the problem is some sort of 'lean burn' situation, were there is not enough fuel/not enough spark? being delivered in relation to load and ignition advance. Could there be a partial plug in the fuel flow, so that enough gas is delivered at lower speeds, but it starts starving as it runs faster, and you overshoot the advance?

[JohnMink]

OK. We pretty much have the skipping problem fixed. The mechanic took the carbeurator apart and found out that the rods settings were off and the float was sticking, so he fixed those and also adjusted the timing. Now new problem: After we put the rebuilt engine in we noticed the transmission was leaking so took it out and had it completely rebuilt by a transmission specialist who really knows his stuff. But now we have an oil leak around where the rear main is. My question is: Is there anything in the removal and installation of the transmission which would disturb the rear main seal in a brand new engine and cause it to leak? If anyone who is very knowledgeable would like to call me and talk Kaisers/problems, please call me and just give me your number and I'll call you on my dime. Thanks! John 276-694-6266

[joefrazer]

Rear main leaks in 226 engines are unfortunately common. Your best bet is to use the neoprene setup that is available at most shops that rebuild forklift engines. The lower half has a longer plate on it, however, it does not interfere with anything when assembled. I used it on my 50K rebuild and it's never leaked.

What probably happened was that the transmission was not properly supported when the converter bolts were removed and that stressed the seal, causing the leak.

[JohnMink]

 
I take back former post....we took the car out for a ride today and it's still skipping. Gonna try plugs and wires. The mechanic said they looked ok but I have a brand new set of plugs that came with the rebuilt engine which the other mechanic did not put in and the wires are the ones that came on the car so I don't know how old they are. Might as well try things that haven't been ruled out yet.

[Thomas]

Check my post #4 in General, it does not cost as much as a part.

[mbflemingkf]

Thomas, what kind of Kaiser or Frazer do you have?

[Thomas]

At the moment a late 47 Frazer Manhattan waiting for warm weather to paint it.