Things they should have at KFOCI Meets

[ben-tex]

... have seen a slightly higher loss than the others due to problems that have been addressed by a dedicated team of folks who've worked hard at solving them.

Jim I would be interested in knowing the problems and how they are being addressed. You can respond to my email if this is something that does not need to be posted here.

[pnw_oldmags]

It would be interesting to fill in the membership column for each year.

I thought increased membership fees may have force folks to make choices but only one increase has occurred in recent history.

Death, decisions, laws, age of membership??

It would be very interesting to survey lost members as to why they dropped out.

Without that information how can we turn it around??

Date    Annual Membership     Lifetime Membership    Members
         
Dec-97       $25.00               $250.00    
Dec-98       $25.00                  $250.00    
Dec-99       $25.00               $250.00    
Dec-00       $25.00               $250.00    
Dec-01       $30.00               $500.00    
Dec-02       $30.00               $500.00    
Dec-03       $30.00               $500.00    
Dec-04       $30.00               $500.00    
Dec-05       $30.00               $500.00                      1500
Dec-06       $30.00               $500.00    
Dec-07       $35.00               $500.00    
Dec-08       $35.00               $500.00    
Dec-09       $35.00               $500.00    
Dec-10       $35.00               $500.00                      1094

[Roadmaster49]

The membership numbers are bad news. That's a huge drop from back when I was doing the Quarterly. I wonder how the numbers are for other clubs and if our numbers are due to some problems that could be corrected?

I am a Buick Club of America member and this issue has been beat to death recently. Our dues are $50 per year. I don't see declining membership as a huge issue.  This is a, uhm, maturing hobby.  Why do we care how many members are in a club that has a finite years-span of production?

There are a lot of clubs for old car makes or specific models that are smaller then KFOCI. I just joined 2 months ago and don't own a KF (yet).   ALL clubs have older members dropping out due to age and death. Most clubs are in decline.

I can think of only one old car club that has folded recently and that was The Milestone Car Society, the post war version of CCCA. So not even make specific and it lacked an identity.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

The grim reality, regardless of what car clubs you belong to is that it costs money to keep the club going.  The cost of printing and mailing the monthly newsletter along with the typesetting, editing, printing and mailing costs of the Quarterly issues have to be covered somehow.  Too many of KFOCI's members are life members and for the last few years, CD interest income means the club is loosing bushels of money on each one of them.  Efforts to put at least a temporary end to taking on new Life Members (but leave those in place as of a given date  as they are) have failed.  Either people want to "set up a committee" to study the matter (and it never gets set up or studied) or have no concept of the costs involved.

For any club, declining membership will bring them to the point where they can no longer afford to operate.  This is a reality, regardless of demographics, etc.  "Matured" clubs are fine, but when the members can no longer afford the luxury of old car ownership or die off and the cars go overseas (especially the case with Darrins it seems, ask Mr. Hyman) or just "disappear".

[KWZ]

and the cars go overseas (especially the case with Darrins it seems, ask Mr. Hyman) or just "disappear".

Hah!  Sadly true.  I think those of us still around in 20 years will have a radically different club on our hands.  It may get to a point where we merge with other clubs devoted to independent makes and create an orphan organization of some sort. 

[Roadmaster49]

Yes. We just don't know what the landscape will be like 10 to 20 years from now. I think we should just enjoy what we have now. I was against $50 annual dues for the BCA but we have a good treasurer that was forward thinking and now the club is solvent, has a great monthly publication and is moving forward. Membership has stabilized I think.  I am so tired of the mantra that we need to get the "young people" into the hobby.

It's not going to happen.  Not in huge numbers. KF will be hurt by the limited appeal of the marque. They are still making Chevys, Fords, Buicks etc.  Would it be so bad to have a Postwar Independents club?

I know the Packard postwar crowd has been looked down upon by their CCCA faction. Just like back in the mid fifties though, maybe clubs would act like the manufacturers and resist joining until it is too late.

[Aeroman]

Here in Atlanta, we had an Orphan car meet that ran for 16 years. At our Orphan meets, there was talk of what would eventually happen to each of the clubs as older members died off and less and less people were actually interested in our particular orphan. There was always talk of an all-encompassing Orphan Car Club and everyone seems to think that someone else will form it and it never got done. I think there is a general apathy out there - "as long as my publications keep coming and I can go to a meet once in a while to see similar cars, I'll send in my dues," seems to be that mantra. As with any club, there is a hard core group of people who keep it together and running and that is the strength of the club and that will determine it's survival.

The Willys Club disappeared maybe 10 years ago but not by loss of membership - there were plenty of members, but no one interested in running the club. The man in charge of the club absconded with the funds and no one seemed to care enough to put the club back together.

So do we merge for survival like the independents did when they were hurting? Will the Hudson Club join with the Nash Club to form the AMC Club? Wait - there's already several AMC Clubs.

Sorry, I'm rambling and not making a point. Who wants to step up and begin talks with the orphan clubs that are shrinking about banding together for survival? Which clubs are hurting? Or maybe, perhaps, each club should become affiliated with AACA but still keep their semi-independence.

Me, I've become lazy and complacent and will join if someone else puts it together, but I just don't want to do the work any more. I will help if asked, though.

[joefrazer]

The KFOCI recognizes the Willys built vehicles manufactured after the purchase of Willys by Kaiser Motors in 1953. By default, we've also taken in the Willys vehicles built after WWII...but seem to have favored the cars, trucks and wagons but not the CJs and Forward Controls. Is it time to think about taking in all Willys built vehicles? I know that there's a club for the earlier prewar stuff, the Willys Overland Knight Registry, but what about those cars built in the later 30s and early 40s? It might be time to give it serious thought.

Also, there's the Graham built vehicles. Early '47 Frazers were Graham Paige built...I think we've missed some opportunities in not partnering with the Graham Club. I've attended a few of their meets and more than one of their members own a Kaiser built vehicle. I would think that a joint meet would open a lot of eyes.

Just my two cents worth.

[Roadmaster49]

Joe
That's a tough one. The interesting aspect of KF is that it is a defined period and purpose. Ford and Chevy especially have no overriding club because of the breadth of product over the years.  I can see an association with Graham because KF (Frazer) operated in a Graham factory. But I don't thnk that would add serious numbers to the club, but it's a simple matter to extend membership.

As for the Orphans, just like in the 50's nobody wants to be perceived as the one that joined another. I don't know KF membership trends. I guess it's going down. I just joined.  I will be a member until the end. (My life or the clubs)

Isn't it better to have 600 fanatical members then 1600 with 1000 so so members? The AACA is for everybody, and has a terrific publication I have heard and great meets and heritage. But I joined KFOCI because I want a more intimate in depth experience with KF and will eventually purchase 2-3 KF cars and attend meets.

[Roadmaster49]

Personally I am very happy I joined. Wonderful format. I am not a fan of a nice magazine every month, as you get with the Buick Club. Most members want the monthly color magazine but I get a lot of magazines and am more interested in the newsletter and then quaterly magazine of the KFOCI.  Plus hopefully I can attend a couple regional meets.

It's important to locate the national meets geographically. Sorry we live in a country that is so large and spread out but if you ask west coasters to come east every year, membership would probably drop.  They might join local clubs for get togethers. There are a lot of mostly hot rod oriented local clubs where guys just want to hang out at the local drive in seasonally with like minded folks. PONTIAC here in central Iowa has a non national affiliated Pontiac club.

So, keep the newsletter, and I hope I understand it correctly though that I get a "magazine" once a quarter. I love photos of KF cars and historical stories. I like that KF has a historian that is involved in the club.  I just wish I could buy his book for less then $300!!!

[Gordie]

There are half a dozen good books on Kaiser-Frazer history and you don't have to pay $300 for any of them.  Just watch eBay and they come up frequently.  The most expensive is "The Last Onslaught on Detroit" which is a good buy at under $75.00 and the others do not sell for that much usually.

[amkfken]

Quote from post #37 "The KFOCI recognizes the Willys built vehicles manufactured after the purchase of Willys by Kaiser Motors in 1953. By default, we've also taken in the Willys vehicles built after WWII...but seem to have favored the cars, trucks and wagons but not the CJs and Forward Controls."

joefrazer: Apparently you did not attend the National held in Albuquerque NM where I entered my 1958 FC Willys and did come away wih a second place in modified.

Note: this was (and still is) a 1958 vehicle, well after the 1953 Kaiser motors purchase of Willys. There was also a FC 150 at the last Denver meet and was judged. The first National meet I attended in 1978 in Olympia WA. had a Wagoneer judged in the Willys class (I don't remember the year of the Wagoneer.)

Just my .03c worth

[Bulletin Editor]

Correct me if I am wrong Barbara but your first issue of the Monthly Bulletin was December 2005! 

Yes, Jim, you are correct.  Hard to believe it's been 5 years ... and 3 Golden Quill Awards! I'm keeping my fingers crossed that we receive another for 2010.

[Bulletin Editor]

I just wish I could buy his book for less then $300!!!

Jack & I could not stop laughing when we saw the prices for his book on Amazon.com ... those sellers must be on crack! For half that amount, I'll sell Jack's personal copy to you ... just kidding.  Seriously, watch eBay ... his book has popped up from time to time, and at a more reasonable price.  Or, you could put a "WANTED" ad in the Bulletin.

[joefrazer]

Yes, FCs have appeared at KFOCI meets and I know of another that took home an award at a national several years ago. I suppose what I meant was that the passenger cars and wagons seem to appear more often at club meets so everyone assumes their status as being "included" in judging, when really, any Willys built vehicle is welcome, although we officially recognize those built after the merger.

I'd like us to expand our horizons and include any Willys built vehicle, period. Yes, I know that the prewar vehicles are as much a Kaiser as is today's Chryslers, but like the manufacturers did in the 50's, mergers are a way to survive! And, think out of the box too...maybe we could build some sort of "sister" relationship with the Graham club and their vehicles. Just a thought!