Things they should have at KFOCI Meets

[GA Kaiser]

I am also in the Atlanta area and know Rick K for nearly 4 years now.  I had my '54 Manhattan out today to a large cruise-in that meets every month all summer long about 10 miles from my house.  I try to talk to anyone who will listen about KF and the club, I even made copies of the membership form, but no one has ever asked about joining despite my cheer leading.  I am 54 by the way, and have been unemployed for a year and half.  I have not attended a National yet.  I do plan on 2012 in Tennessee, because it certainly is within a fairly easy driving distance.  My car will never win an award (previous owner got a "participant" award at a National), and that is OK with me.  I will probably never drive my car to any meet more than about 400 miles from home, if that.  I do believe the National meet should stay on the revolving geographic regions so that perhaps I can attend a National once every 4 years close to home.  Maybe when I retire or inherit a ton of money from an unknown relative, I can travel to other regions for meets.  Like Rick said, most people wait for someone else to do the work.  I guess that is why I ended up doing the Dixie Region Fall meet last year (with help and encouragement from Rick!).  I learned a lot with that effort and maybe next year I will try to do that again when our weather cools down in the fall.

[HJ-ETEX]

amkfken has to be Ken in Colorado. Glad to see you here! I purchased a (1963) FC170 after Ken's nice FC170 with a FoMoCo 250 appeared at Albuquerque. There was a FC170 from North Carolina that was judged (by me) at the Nashville National. This vehicle did not have a bed, but they were not necessarily sold or delivered with a bed so lacking any knowledge to the contrary, it was judged as is.
The FC170 that I just missed out getting prior to the one I found was a FC170DR (Dr=dual rear wheels) in Dallas that had a fertilizer spreader bed so it would have been delivered with bare rails behind the cab.

[HJ-ETEX]

GA Kaiser: I may not make to the National Meet in San Diego this year, but I have been looking forward to a National in the Tennessee River Valley. I spent 9 years of my childhood in Cleveland, Tennessee and remember a house painter nick-named Popeye who had a Dragon for several months as his work car. Independent contractors didn't use trucks then -  they bought CHEAP used cars, ripped out the interiors, and did not care for them. So I was 11 years old and already knew weird other cars used GM Hydramatics.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

For the benefit of ROADMASTER49 and other new members who are not aware, Kaiser-Frazer Corporation started as a joint venture between Graham-Paige Motors Corporation (Joseph W. Frazer side) and the Henry J Kaiser Corporation (HJK side).  The first several thousand or so 1947 Frazer standard (model F-47) cars were built with Graham-Paige identification tags and sold to Graham-Paige franchised dealers by the Graham-Paige Sales Corporation.  Kaiser-Frazer acquired Graham's auto operations in early 1947 (purchase took place in January 1947 subject to stockholder ratification which came in March 1947).

I joined the club in the mid-1970's and at that time the club elected to recognize the 1949-51 Jeepsters and Aero Willys passenger cars but not wagons, trucks, etc.  At the 1975 National in PA the club took note of a Kaiser-Jeep/AMC type Jeepster and gave it a trophy in judging (it was owned by the host of the meet).  At present we are still a hodge-podge on what is recognized.  The rule of thumb as I knew it was to take in only those postwar Willys or Jeep-branded products that had no formal club supporting them which is why CJ's tended to be ignored while station wagons and trucks drifted in after the demise of the Willys Club (another place where I lost a lot of material they asked to borrow for their newsletter and other publications).

[Fid]

When I hosted the meet here in May 2005, a long time member who no longer owns a KF product, showed up with his 1967 AMC Ambassador convertible and insisted it be judged because "It has the engine (327 CID V8) KF was considering..." in it. I don't know, I thought that was stretching it a bit. He got quite nasty about it and when his car was ruled ineligible, I made sure he got at least two votes for "People's Choice" and made sure the saw the ballots with his car on them. I'm not sure what he really wanted. Is a $12 trophy really worth all that fuss?

[Roadmaster49]

When I hosted the meet here in May 2005, a long time member who no longer owns a KF product, showed up with his 1967 AMC Ambassador convertible and insisted it be judged because "It has the engine (327 CID V8) KF was considering..." in it. I don't know, I thought that was stretching it a bit. He got quite nasty about it and when his car was ruled ineligible, I made sure he got at least two votes for "People's Choice" and made sure the saw the ballots with his car on them. I'm not sure what he really wanted. Is a $12 trophy really worth all that fuss?

  No not worth it. I want my vehicles judged, if ever, to see where I might need improvement.  I have seen garage fulls of trophies tossed out after a death or a divorce.

[Roadmaster49]

I do plan on 2012 in Tennessee, because it certainly is within a fairly easy driving distance.    I do believe the National meet should stay on the revolving geographic regions so that perhaps I can attend a National once every 4 years close to home.  

I agree. Rotate. For younger members or older retired types, the revolving locations allow us to visit different parts of the country.

[Roadmaster49]

There are half a dozen good books on Kaiser-Frazer history and you don't have to pay $300 for any of them.  Just watch eBay and they come up frequently.  The most expensive is "The Last Onslaught on Detroit" which is a good buy at under $75.00 and the others do not sell for that much usually.

I've got a signed copy of "Last Onslaught, 1st edition". I have 2 other books of KF. One is bad, I think Brooklands. The other is the Factory Photos book. Great for authenticity and photos, not so much on historical content.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

The Brooklamds book (if I remember right) is nothing more than a collection of contemporary road tests that include items from British car magazines.  It's an interesting read to see how automotive "experts" of the day viewed the company cars but is also skewed all over the place because you are unable to compare comments on K-F products with comments on other makes of the same model year.  If you do compare road tests with competition, you may find our cars are not so bad as they seem.

[KWZ]

When I hosted the meet here in May 2005, a long time member who no longer owns a KF product, showed up with his 1967 AMC Ambassador convertible and insisted it be judged because "It has the engine (327 CID V8) KF was considering..." in it. I don't know, I thought that was stretching it a bit. He got quite nasty about it and when his car was ruled ineligible, I made sure he got at least two votes for "People's Choice" and made sure the saw the ballots with his car on them. I'm not sure what he really wanted. Is a $12 trophy really worth all that fuss?

  No not worth it. I want my vehicles judged, if ever, to see where I might need improvement.  I have seen garage fulls of trophies tossed out after a death or a divorce.

I agree.  I think this gets to the point of a specific-make club.  I put a lot more credence in a judging sheet from KFOCI than I would even in an AACA Judging sheet.  I want my vehicle(s) judged by the people that know my car best.  I am fairly young and restored my '51F without much in the way of help from local enthusiasts.  Taking it to the national and having it judged showed me the things I needed to do to make the car 100% correct.  I doubt the AACA judges have the detailed knowldge the KFOCI judges have on items like engine color, decal placement, etc.....  As for allowing a '67 AMC to be judged, the owner should be embarrassed for asking. 

[Fid]

I gave him those People's Choice votes just to see how he'd react when I showed him his car got votes. His car was nice but...   Anyway, I might argue that my Mazda MPV should be judged because the rear gate opens up and the seats fold down like a Kaiser Vagabond and that's the way KF was heading so that means it qualifies!
The line has to be drawn somewhere.

[KWZ]

I gave him those People's Choice votes just to see how he'd react when I showed him his car got votes. His car was nice but...   Anyway, I might argue that my Mazda MPV should be judged because the rear gate opens up and the seats fold down like a Kaiser Vagabond and that's the way KF was heading so that means it qualifies!
The line has to be drawn somewhere.

That's funny.  I think people get carried away sometimes.  Do the Packard people allow '55-'57 Nashes w/ Packard V-8s to be judged?  Heck no. 

[Aeroman]

Funny you should mention it. The Studebaker Drivers Club allows Packards to be judged at their meets (although I cannot remember one older than 1955), but I've never seen a Stude at a Packard meet and the Packardbakers are shunned there also, but accepted and encouraged at SDC meets.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

It is my recollection that the American Motors Owners club allows for any AMC product including 1955-57 Hudsons or 1958 Hudson prototypes (I have some pictures showing how a Rambler could be a 58 Hudson).  I also understand that The SDC would accept a Studebaker-built Packard.  Neither club would take on product made prior to the mergers involved with their respective parent firms.  That was done in part, I believe, because the Hudson and Packard groups didn't want to recognize the HASH and PACKARDBAKERS.

Over the years, judges at KFOCI meets have accepted cars not normally part of the "family" either because the car owner was a friend or they didn't have many cars.  There is nothing in writing that prevents anything from being judged in the Special-Modified or Miscellaneous classes, including Graham-Paige Rototillers and Kaiser Dishwashers!   Too bad the officers and the directors of the club don't want to do judging right; mayhaps it would cause too much grief if people found out what was really correct or not corrrect. 

I would be happy to get involved in the matter again, providing the other parties involved all played by the original rules on the project including leaving the Chief Judge out of the decision making process.

[joefrazer]

I was at a Nashional (Nash national meet) several years ago where they had a separate class for the Kelvinator appliances. As I recall, there were four refrigerators to be judged. We should encourage the same at a KF meet sometime. We could have the dishwashers and sink tops judged in one class and the tillers in another.