Anyone know anything about this car?

[Fid]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-Manhattan-Black-Leather-1953-Kaiser-Manhattan-Factory-Special-leather-interior-/190743170297?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2c692dccf9

Seems pretty unusual. A Manhattan with a vinyl top and leather upholstery. I had not ever heard of this one before. Does anyone know about it? A picture of the data tag would be beneficial.  It's a cool car.

[Roadmaster49]

"Award winner at Kaiser meets" implies this belongs to a KFOCI member.  Would like to see the data plate. I guess it's a 999/888 car.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

I inquired; so far no response from the seller.

Remember judges don't know what they are looking at in a number of cases and have been known in the past to go with "the guy I bought it from said it is factory original".

[Roadmaster49]

Agree it MAY not be however, it has the same pleat as the 999/888 turquoise show car duplicate in southern Illinois. THAT car has brown saddle leather interior but same pleat. 

Kaiser Frazer data plates are so helpful, I hope the seller comes through.

Also, this car appears to have factory wire wheels. Same as the Illinois car. This car has some ques that lead me to believe it was a show car clone but perhaps the dealer that ordered it (or individual) specified black leather instead of saddle. Personally I can see why as I prefer black leather over saddle as a contrast to turquoise. 

The southern Illinois car is a verified Dragon. This one isn't but has the bamboo roof which I understand was Dragon only?

Very interesting car, hope we get more details.

[Fid]

The fact that the seller mentions it's an  "Award winner at Kaiser meets..." indicates that someone here on these forums should know the car. If not, I'd be very suspect if there is no picture of the data tag.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Those of us who have been in the club for many years know that some cars were "dressed up" by owners working off detail from actual special order jobs.  Remember the cars Larry Smith had including the immaculate 2-door 1953 Dragon with factory wire wheels?  The fact that none of the CA people seem to recognize the car suggests there is more to this than meets the eye (seller is located in Poway CA and I am guessing, perhaps wrongly, that the car is a CA vehicle).

Don't forget that, besides the 999/888 PAINT/TRIM numbers, there is one additional item, at the SPEC-FO portion of the tag.  Thanks to the Show Dragons and the 1953 Kaiser Manhattan 4-door Traveler information, I have a good idea of the number that should be on this car if it was done at the factory. 

[Roadmaster49]

I have a kind of related question:  what was the arrangement on those wire wheels?  In other words, were those factory authorized optional wheels that could show up on any Kaiser from 1953 through 1955?

Buick, Chrysler, Cadillac, Packard all offered Kelsey Hayes wire wheels on cars from 53-56. I believe the only difference would be center caps.  Just curious what the "official" factory position was on these rarely seen wire wheels.

[joefrazer]

KF offered wire wheels on the Dragons in 53 and then on the Manhattans in 54-5. The KF wire wheel differs from the others in that the spoke ran all the way to the outer lip rather than to the top step like MOPAR, Ford and GM used. In judging, the MOPAR version is accepted basically because the KF wheels are nearly impossible to find.

[Roadmaster49]

Just read that in Jack's book, about a $170 option.

[Kenn Evans II]

Here is the data plate for the car, the owner sent it to me this afternoon.

Agree it MAY not be however, it has the same pleat as the 999/888 turquoise show car duplicate in southern Illinois. THAT car has brown saddle leather interior but same pleat. 

Kaiser Frazer data plates are so helpful, I hope the seller comes through.

Also, this car appears to have factory wire wheels. Same as the Illinois car. This car has some ques that lead me to believe it was a show car clone but perhaps the dealer that ordered it (or individual) specified black leather instead of saddle. Personally I can see why as I prefer black leather over saddle as a contrast to turquoise. 

The southern Illinois car is a verified Dragon. This one isn't but has the bamboo roof which I understand was Dragon only?

Very interesting car, hope we get more details.

[Kenn Evans II]

the info on the plate is:
Model 532
Body 1
Paint 999
Trim 5301
IP 36
DR 1
TR7
AG 32
77
24

Bottom row hard to read looks like BR112345  m 5 m7   or M 6 M 7

Body number 5321 12604

[Kenn Evans II]

Hi Jack, I opened the photo and looked at the plate and the SPEC-FO is blank.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

I also received a copy of the body tag from the eBay seller.  As Ken has noted, the paint is factory special (the 999) but the Trim number is that of a standard type Manhattan (5301).  Additionally, there is no SPEC-FO (Special-Foreign Order) number.  This is a must-have for cars with non-factory interior as it would tie back to the file folder that detailed the non-factory special stuff (such as the actual paint color, vendor and their # for the colors used as well as the interior materials).  Lacking both the TRIM and SPEC-FO number, I have to wonder if the interior upgrade was done later on rather than at the factory.  The normal checking indicates the factory did not do the interior.   While there is a "9" under the M1 header, this would not normally have been used to cover an entire interior revision without the SPEC-FO number to tie it all together.

[Roadmaster49]

WOW  $13,000 with 2 days left.  This is the 1st big money auction I have seen for a KF outside of a Darrin or convertible.  11 bids.  Some players are going after this one.   

[StillOutThere]

For the record, or your interest, or whatever.... regarding Chrysler - MoPar applications of wire wheels:

Dodge and Plymouth dealers offered either painted or chromed wire wheels.  They were all 5 bolt on 4.5" bolt circle pattern (same as K-F) and they were referred to as "long laced" or "rim laced" (same as K-F).   These wheels were originally 5" wide.   

DeSoto and Chrysler dealers offered only chromed wire wheels.  There  were also 5 bolt on 4.5" bolt circle pattern (same as K-F) however they were "short laced" (not like K-F) meaning the spokes went to the stepped-down inner portion of the hoop of the wheel.   

Imperials are also short laced however they have a 5 bolt pattern on a 5.5" bolt circle.   These wheels were originally 6" wide.   Imperial wheels will not bolt onto a K-F car.

Both styles were manufactured by Motor Wheel Corp.  Though it is often in hobby writings, Chrysler Corp. NEVER bought wire wheels from Kelsey-Hayes.   All Chrysler - Mopar original wire wheels were by Motor Wheel.

So anyone seeking to purchase MoPar-style reproduction wire wheels to use on their Kaiser-Fraser product would want to purchase the Dodge and Plymouth -style of long laced wire wheel.    Hope this is helpful to someone.