WTB: 1949 Frazer Manhattan

[Roadmaster49]

I would be interested in purchasing a 49 Manhattan, if anyone knows of one for sale.  Prefer titled project level cars but would consider all, since they are rare.

[Logan]

You may have seen this posted on the Forum before, but it does seem to fit your criteria http://rustfreewesterncars.com/1949-frazer

[Roadmaster49]

Actually thanks for bringing that to the top. I tried to locate it.  I am going to look into it.  Thanks

[Roadmaster49]

Sent a $1000 offer on the 49 Frazer. Based on Jake looking around the country, there aren't many of these 49 Frazers left. 

[Logan]

I hope that you will get it.  I corresponded with the owner on this at one time, and it looks like it is intact and rust free.  It should be a great project, and as you say, it is rare.  Good luck!

[Roadmaster49]

I received a kind reply from the seller, actually seller's brother.  He stated that they received my $1000 offer and they counter-offered at $2000.  They have it advertised at $2250.   At this time I am going to pass but may reconsider this winter. I am in no hurry but of all the slab siders, I like the Kaiser Virginians, Vagabonds, Travelers and 49 Frazers the most. 

I looked about 2 years ago, for a 49 Frazer complement for my Virginian, to restore along side and I found 3 at that time. This one, which is still for sale, one in New England, that was considerably rougher and transport would have been a deal killer, and one in MN that the seller "just wanted gone" and who knows what happened. 

Then 49 Frazer offerings dried up. jake- has been posting for sale ads here and I don't believe he has ever posted one. Of course, I can't personally afford a $12,000 #2 car or anything.

At $2000-$2250 this Frazer will continue to languish where it's at.  I'll set some money aside and make a run at it later.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

If you are going to make the National Convention look around; it is not unusual to find nice K-F products for sale at good prices during the meet.

[HJ-ETEX]

There are some 49 Frazers out there, but Frazer Manhattans seem to be hiding.
Former Club VP Hal Nauman has been looking for a Frazer Manhattan for more than 10 years and he actually has a fair regular 49 Frazer as well as Manhattan parts car. However he would rather start a good example of the real thing.

[Roadmaster49]

It's hard to tell, but is that one in Colorado a standard or a Manhattan?  I was going to ask but there is not much to go on. 

[Fid]

Identifying a '49 Frazer Manhattan can be a bit challenging. The only way to really know is look at the tag - a model F496 is a Manhattan and F495 is a standard. The car in that ad does not have 'Manhattan' scripts on it, nor does it have the fancier rocker trim but it does have the beltline trim. Many '49/'50  Frazer Manhattans were tutoned.  The reason I say it's a challenge is because we restored only one 1949 Frazer in all of our years in the hobby and it was a Manhattan. The VIN was F496 - 004072 so it was a true Manhattan and had the chrome window frames  (inside) color coordinated streering wheel and knobs, lots of chrome on the door panels and dash.




But it did not have the wide rocker molding or the belt molding on the fender line -


but it was factory tutoned.
The car was sold to Tom Holman of Michigan. He got 1st place with it at Marquette in 1983 and that's the last we saw it. I don't know if he still has it or not. It was a beaut.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Over the course of time (especially now compared to when new) some of the trim items on various models have been changed due to damage, theft, etc.  The main things are the tags.  If the tags are consistent for serial number, ITEM & SCHED number and other particulars, the rest of the car could reflect anything from reconstructing the car due to deterioration, or loss of bits and bobs.

While we do not have the degree of "number matching" that the muscle car people do, there are a few places where the information on the car has to be consistent.

[Fid]

That's true Jack. Now that I think about it, that car had a Frazer crest (the one used on the hood) on the deck lid and a 'Frazer' script on the deck lid too. Two non-original features added by a previous owner, both of which were removed when it was restored so, even though I recall no evidence of it, the other items could have been added/removed as well. I wish I could find the full tag info on that car because I always thought it was an interesting example.

[Roadmaster49]

Fid
Interesting that that car has dropped out of sight.  Very nice car.  It doesn't make much difference to me whether the Colorado car is a Manhattan or not because it would still have the 3 49 restyle items I like the most about 49 Frazers: the Grille, the dash and the taillights.    But I like top of the line in all makes, so ultimately it would be cool if it was a Manhattan.

Grilles are important to me. I recently sold my 48 Packard Custom 8 with the "eggcrate" grille.  The "Supers" had a completely different grille and to me the eggcrate makes these bathtub Packards much more palatable.  Although I like the 47-48 Frazer Manhattans, when they redid the 49 Grille, it was an improvement in grille style as well as proportion. 

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

I've been in the club just about 40 years now (boy do I feel old!) and spent all but a bit more than a year in the Midwest.  Over the course of time, I've seen hundreds, if not into the thousands of K-F or Willys products show up at events once or twice and never seen again.  I would guess most of these cars are sitting in garages or barns (and I hope properly protected) waiting to be found. 

[Fid]

Did you see this  one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Other-Makes-Frazer-Manhattan-4-Door-Sedan-1949-frazer-manhattan-4-door-sedan-kaiser-frazer-corp-/290952458981?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item43be1e32e5&vxp=mtr#v4-41



Looks good but I see it too has the smaller rocker molding as the  one I mentioned earlier  did. I wonder if it is a true Manhattan? There seems to be a lot of forgeries but the interior looks like Manhattan save the steering wheel which I believe were all colored coded to go with the rest of the car on the Manhattan - I could be wrong about that. Also the Manhattan has a large chrome trim piece on the glove box door as this one does but that door appears to be a different color than the rest of the dash. 


Anyway, the VIN listed does not look right and I would be interested in knowing what it really is. A Manhattan would be F496.... 

I would not let any of these things stand in my way as none make it a bad car, it's just as I've stated many times, I don't like mis-representation.