Did the 1953 Henry J or Allstate ever NOT come w/ a trunk lid

[rande77]

Hi All
I was having a discussion w/ a friend of mine who's Uncle owns a '53 Henry J. He told me the car has NO trunk. He showed me a picture it has '53 bumpers, grille, hood ornament taillight delete(K) blanks where the taillights belong and taillights on the fins. Is it possible this is a rarity for the '53 to have no trunk. Any help is appreciated.
Thanks
Bob
P.S. Picture attached

[joefrazer]

I'd be curious to know what the trim tag looks like. What's stamped will tell the tale.

[AZ_HJ]

If you look in the Kaiser-Frazer domcuments you will see that you could order a 1953 w/o a Deck Lid. The question would be did anyone really order one that way.

[Fid]

Ten years ago, I would've said all '53 Js had a trunk lid - I would have been wrong. Examples without trunk lids exist but are few and far between. I've encountered 2 of them since 2004 and they were authentic. My friend Todd Spreck called me once to tell me he had picked up two junked Henry Js in northwestern MN and one was a '53 without a trunk lid. I wanted to stop and see it. I thought for sure I would look at the tags, find out it did not have a dome light or bracket on the firewall for the Delco style regulators that the '53s had and laugh and tell him it was a '51 which someone put '53 fenders on.  Well, I got there and checked it out - it was K533, with a dome light, round pedal stems, Delco regulator... everything a '53 would have and it did not have a trunk lid. It was AG 34.  KF Bulletin 323 which announces the new features of the '52 Henry Corsair and Corsair Deluxe states that "Trunk lids are still optional..." but you see very few of the later cars without one.  The day I saw Todd's car, I didn't have a camera with me but he did send me some pictures but I can't find them right now.  There was also one on ebay a couple of years ago - I e-mailed the seller and asked for the info, again I don't recall where I put the info but it too was a 4 cylinder car and equipped with AG 34.  Seeing only two in my 53  years in the hobby means they're pretty rare.
It is very easy to bolt fenders and grill from a different year car on a J and you see that done quite frequently. If you want to prove it really is a '53 (and I've seen cars where tags have been switched too!) here are some telltales:
A '53 Henry J has a bracket spot welded to the firewall to mount the Delco regulator - earlier cars to not have this:

On the earlier cars, the regulator is mounted under the drip lip and  bolted directly to the firewall - no bracket.
A '53 also has a semi circular speedo (which could've been changed) and the windshield wiper control is mounted on the face of the dash, above the ignition switch, instead of top center as the early cars:

And a '53 will have a domelight - all models, not just the deluxe.  A '53 will also have round stems on the clutch and brake pedals whereas the older cars had flat ones. These are all things the would be very difficult to change. I'd like to see pictures of the data tag. I believe only the Corsair (4 cylinder) was available without the deck lid in '53 but I have no legit documentation to back that up.

[rande77]

Here are some other pics of this '53 in question. Thanks for the info to this point gentlemen.
Bob

[rande77]

My mistake forgot to attach the following

[Fid]

Found it - here's a picture of the car Todd had.



He had it a very short time as it was pretty well gone. He knew someone who wanted to buy it  so he sold it pretty quickly. That is a '53 rear bumper, pointed and more 'V' shaped than the earlier cars, the other  tip-off that it's a '53 rear bumper is the bolt hole in the center - only the '53 has that.


He didn't send me pictures of the data tag (the one on the firewall) as I asked but I think he still knows where the car is.
rande77, do you by chance have a picture of the data tag for that car? It's the tag on the cowl on top of the firewall by the driver side hood hinge. That will list the AG (Accessory Group) and I'd be interested in knowing what it is.  Last Onslaught On Detroit lists AG 34 as consisting of "Folding rear seat, front wing vents and Vacuum boosted fuel pump" for $27.64

[Fid]

Oh, and those are nice pictures rande77. The one of the dash indicates it is indeed a '53 but it does have a '51/'52 speedometer cluster. They are interchangeable  so someone made that change. Also the gauge mounted to the left of the steering wheel is not original but probably better than those indicator lights. It looks like a nice example of a '53 J and with overdrive it's probably pretty fun to drive around in.

[rande77]

Fid
My friends '53 has square clutch/brake stems they are not round. Do you think this is a true Lid delete '53
Bob

[Fid]

With restored cars, it's hard to say what may have been changed so the only way to really know is to look at he data tag and see what AG it lists.  In any case, a body swap, which would be hard to do, is not likely. If a frame off restoration was done on car, certain things could've been swapped with a parts car for whatever reason. For some reason the speedometer was changed so perhaps the pedals were too. I just checked the Henry J parts book and it specifically lists a "round stem" on the brake and clutch pedal sections in the '53 supplement. Perhaps some did not get that change, that's possible too.  But if you can find what the data tag says, if that lists AG 34, then it is authentic and makes only the 3rd one I've ever seen.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

As noted in KFOCI HANDBOOK Version 5.0, it was possible to get a HJ Corsair (4 cyl) only with or without a deck lid as dealers could order the K533 series cars that way...the $1,499.00 advertised price at the start of the 1953 model year was for a "without".  This is supported by the Chrysler Corporation "spy" report on the 1953 Henry J.  Corsair Deluxe (6 cyl) had the Accessory Group as a manditory option.  The same sort of thing applied to the Allstate.  The 1953 type 210 was a trunkless model.  Type numbers were used to identify the Allstate equivilent of the Accessory Group(s) on HJ's as well as overdrive or non-overdrive equipped models. 

Barbara and I expect to get the November mailing out to club members no later than 11/2/13.  It will contain the new HANDBOOK CD, the November Monthly Bulletin & a Club Roster.  All regular (annual) and Life Members will get publications; Associate Members do not get publications. 

[rande77]

Thanks for all the help guys, I'm trying to get a picture of the Data plate. Any idea how many were made (533) w/o a Decklid.

[pnw_oldmags]

Have you checked the bolts at secure the quarter panels?  Isn't it possible some one replace the rear bumper and quarterpanels after a "previous" rear end collision.  That might answer why no rear splash panel.  I would really like to see the data plate. ... just a thought.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

All HJ's came with a rear splash pan.  Perhaps the car at one time had a Continental tire kit that someone took off it and kept the rear bumper?  Who knows.

I too would like to at least see the information off the firewall data plate.  If you cannot get a good picture, how about a list of the headings with a number or letter & what was listed at each one? 

[Gordie]

I think that most Allstates had a deck lid but my serial no 39 does not have one.  It is a four cyl. with overdrive.