Henry J with a trunk lid wanted.

[BigDave LM6174]

Hey Guys, I have not had time to go find that Henry J in Carson.  Still trying to determine from a friend who lives in Carson, who has seen it on the lot, where exactly it is.  I am going to go find it, driving my Henry J, so the guy knows what i am talking about when I use Fids post as a note pad.  LOL.

[Fid]

Dave, an addendum - that car is a '53 and I'm sure it was originally a four cylinder. If it was, a '53 four cylinder without overdrive would have a 47/11 rear end as they changed it in '52 for the 4 cylinder without OD. It's stil not correct for a six without OD but it may perform a little better but likely very sluggish off the line. See if they'll let you drive it and if it won't go over 50 mph without the engine screaming, it either needs  different rear end or overdrive added.
Check the serial number between the driver's door hinges and if it begins with K533x- it was originally a four cylinder. If you don't feel too awful about bending down and looking at the rearend, then do so and look at the tag on it - If it does not say 41/10 it's the wrong rear end for a six without OD.

I also uploaded the pic so you can zoom in and see the tag. The one in the pic says "W41/9" and is in a six that was converted from a four with no OD. We had some discussion with the owner on here who complained he just bought and it and wanted to sell it. That was about 5 years ago so and I asked him to look at the tag and he sent that picture and posted back saying "you're right 45 mph is all it'll do and it's screamin'"  I don't know what he ever did with it - maybe he still has it. I suggested going back the seller and claiming it was mis-represented as it was not a "tag-matching" car. Don't know if that would get him anything or not.

[Terry T]

what would a six w/o OD say?

[joefrazer]

The HJ shop manual says a 6 with OD would be 41/9.

[Fid]

The six without overdrive should have a 41/10 (4:10). I've heard people claim the six with OD works fine with the 41/10 as well and the advantage you gain is if the OD quits working for some reason (and we've all  experienced that) you can still cruise at around 60 mph. It's just not as quick off the line. But Jim is correct, a six with OD originally came with a 41/9 (4:55). The shop manual says "early production" 4 cylinders without OD also came from the factory with a 41/9. I don't know when the change to 47/11 took place but if my '52 Vagaond came with 41/9 it may have been in the '52 (Corsairs) where the change took place. The shop manual does not state - perhaps there's a bulletin on this?
My '52 Vagabond was originally a four cyl without OD but when the four threw a rod (as a lot of them do when you don't have OD) I replaced it with a 6 cylinder and added an overdrive trans.  Because I added overdrive, I did not have to change the rear end (which is 41/9). The car performs great - I drove over 700 miles (round trip)  to a meet in Missourri Valley, IA in 2004 and recently put over 650 miles on it driving it to the Orphan Car show in Subblett, IL in 2012. It cruises right along at 65 - 70 mph on the highway with no problems. Great road car (as I'm sure Terry is aware as he drove one on a lot farther trip than I did!). But a 6 cylinder without OD is quite poor, and undrivable on the hiway, with the 41/9; about 45 - 50 mph is all you're going to get out of it.
Here's the spec chart right out of the shop manual:

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

The rear axle ratio when coupled to overdrive drops around 30% when the o/d is engaged.  If you had a 4.10:1 ratio, power transfer would be same as if you had a straight 2.87:1 rear axle and at 4.55:1 same as a 3.18:1 or so.  The lower you get to 1:1 the less the engine has to work to maintain speed but you begin losing the "ummph" needed for going up grades, especially long and/or steeper ones.  That's why the disengage function when you push the gas pedal down to get back to the higher ratio for traction. 

You can also get better gas mileage but again, if you are not driving only on relatively straight flat roads you have trouble doing hills.

[Corsairdeluxe]

In 1960, I drove a 51 HJ,6 no overdrive, 1836 miles from El Paso Texas to Goldsboro N.C. before there were interstates. The Army gave me $117 to get home and I bought the HJ for $100. From El Paso to almost  Ft.Worth, there was NO speed limit. I drove 60 to 65 mph for 3-4 hours at a time between fill ups. Not one thing went wrong and I used the car for a daily driver after that for 2 years during which it was not asked to go over 50 –55 mph.

The limiting road speed factor, for me, is not the running gear. I personally would not drive a otherwise stock Henry J over 65 even if it had a small block under the hood. The Henry J is top heavy, very lightly sprung and has one pitiful front anti sway bar. Being forced to make a sudden rapid lane change to avoid something in the road or another car could bring both you and your car hobby to a rapid end.

Here is a trial that you might like to try. Take a modern sedan on a series of 90-degree turns, start at 10 mph and work up to where you feel uncomfortable. Duplicate this in your J and judge for your self.

Mac Well’s Blue J is far from a hot rod. He takes it on long trips at freeway speeds. He is helped along by two things. He replaced the light, thin front sway bar with a much thicker one and he added a rear anti sway bar.
Mac is a smart man!

[BigDave LM6174]

Okay guys, I went down to Carson California today and I found the Henry J.  The Car lot that it is sitting on was closed.  Not having anybody around, I was able to snoop at the car. 
I climbed underneath the car, and found The tag on the rear end is 41/10. 
Starting at the trunk, the trunk license light is there however the keyed cylinder is missing from the trunk.  I was able to open the trunk.  The spare tire is in the trunk, but it is not in the wheel well.  The spare tire is a oversized tire so it will not fit in the wheel well.  I could see you large amounts of rust in the trunk, that has been covered with black paint.  The wheel well wasn't rusted through and I could see the parking lot.  The car has a fixed package tray and non-folding rear seat.
Both doors were locked on the car, however the wind wing windows were both unlocked and slightly open.  I was unable to open the drivers door or the passenger door by reaching in with the doorhandle, it appears that the doorhandles may be broken.  I have no idea how they open the doors the normal way.  The four holes are in each of the front fenders to put the Corsaire deluxe script on.  It Does have three holes in hood for the Henry J script that is missing.  The Hood ornament is correct for a 53, however it has the 51 tip.
The real quarter door panels appear to be missing, but the front door panels are definitely from a 51.  The car has a heater but no radio.
I spent about 10 minutes trying to open the hood. The hood latch would not release.  It appears that the Car has been vandalized to not allow opening and closing of doors or hood and the trunk has no lock cylinder.
Through the passenger wind wing, I was able to reach in and open the glove box.  Surprisingly, I found the info that many of us were looking for.  Inside the glovebox comment was the expired registration and insurance information for the car.  If I were the previous owner, I would not want my information in the car.....
The previous owner is a current member of the club.  Patrick McDonald #9337, Shawnee, Kansas.
The VIN K534002247 is on all paperwork.  I was unable to open drivers door or hood to confirm the VIN.
Lastly, it appears to me that the car at one time was a parts car, and it has been put back together with miscellaneous parts.  It is missing a right front hubcap, however the car does look good from a distance.  The paint is dirty , however it appears to be in good shape.
Fid, you are correct that the center grill bar is missing the rod in the middle, and it is also missing the drivers side front parking lens.
Here are some photos.

[BigDave LM6174]

I apologize for all of the grammar errors in my post, I dictated the post onto my iPhone.  It changed words around after I proofread it. 
To clarify, the car has a lot of rust underneath and in the trunk. Black paint has been brushed everywhere underneath and in the trunk to hide the rust.  I have pictures of the registration and insurance card, but I am not going to post them.

BigDave

[BigDave LM6174]

Also, the Vin number on the descriptive paper in the window is different than the Vin number on the registration and insurance.  I question if they have the correct title with the car.

[Fid]

Wow, thanks for the report Dave. So, it does have the correct rear end for a six without OD which means it should be a drivable car for someone. That's the good side. Too bad you weren't able to look under the hood or at the VIN.

[BigDave LM6174]

Fid,
I just don't know what it is with that car.  If i didn't have my own Henry J, I would have thought I was just dumb and didn't know how to open the doors or the hood.  The latch mechanisms just don't move on the darn thing.  Reaching in the windwings, i got it to unlock, but its like the rods are disconneted.  Strangest thing.

As for the hood, it is clearly moving the lever, but the hood jsut wouldn't pop.  I even tried little downward and upward force.

I am tempted to call the club member and ask him about the car.  Does anyone even know him?

I left my  business card on the windshield, and wrote a offer of $1500 for the car.  We will see if they even call me at work.  LOL

[Fid]

Back to the original topic. This is a '52 Vagabond for sale

http://car-from-uk.com/sale.php?id=24366&country=us

A '52 Vagabond is just a left-over '51 which was retagged as a '52. It looks like the one that was owned by Harlan Philips for a while. He passed away within the last couple of years.
The ad appears to still be active if mikemon22 is still looking. 

[mikemon22]

Thank you, Fid. I am trying to contact the owner by phone right now. I have seen so much junk that I was getting discouraged. This looks like the perfect car for me. Thanks again.

[BigDave LM6174]

Let us know how it goes.....