Henry J with a trunk lid wanted.

[mikemon22]

Henry J with a trunk lid wanted. Prefer a 1951, 6-cylinder with overdrive, but will consider whatever you have. I got my first 1951 Henry J in 1958 when I turned 16 (yes, that make me 71 now). I relinquished that one when I joined the Air Force in 1961. I have always wanted another one and I am now ready for my dream car. No matter what the condition of yours, it will be in a good home with me. Please email me with a description of what you have or information you can share. And thank you for helping make my dream come true in Tulsa, OK.

[BigDave LM6174]

I am in Whittier California.  I understand there is one advertised through Hemmings that is located in Carson, California.  This coming Monday, I was going to research it and try and find it to go look at it.  I am not in the market for another car, I was just going to go look at it and post pictures on here..  I can coordinate with you if it is a car you were interested in.  I believe the asking price I heard was 15,000.  I understand it's been for sale for a long time. So they may go down in price. 

[mikemon22]

Thanks Dave. I've been looking (lurking) at several sites including Hemmings. I really appreciate having someone who knows HenryJ's taking a look at the car in Carson. They did not mention if it had an overdrive, but I'm presuming that it does. I look forward to hearing your opinion of the car. I'm in the process of evaluating several car trailers in my area and hope to make a final decision next week. Carson is a long way from Tulsa, but it will be worth the drive if that is the car for me. Still hoping for a closer 1951. Thanks again.

[BigDave LM6174]

I will let you know.  I hear it's on a Car lot in Carson, but I need to find it.

Carson trailers in Carson also manufactures and sells car trailers.  Buy it direct and save. 

[Fid]

I just looked at the pictures of the car in Carson, CA. We've discussed that one on here before Dave / mikemon22.  Based on the pictures, it definitely does not have overdrive - no overdrive control shown in the dash pictures and then the true telltale - no overdrive relay on the firewall in the under-the-hood pictures.
mikemon22, I don't know how original/authentic of an example you are looking for but there are numerous flaws with that one. If the price was right, they may not matter but if you want a truly original car, here's a list of things not correct on the Hemmings car:

A '53 Corsair Deluxe originally had 'Corsair Deluxe' scripts on the front fender flanks, this one does not.
A '53 Corsair Deluxe originally had a covered dash, this one is missing the dash cover and dash is painted indicating it is not a Deluxe.
The 'Henry J' hood script is missing and the holes for it have been filled (just as with Corsair Deluxe ones)
The wiring has been replaced as indicated in the under-the-hood pictures - prospective buyers better hope it was done right as several different gauges of wire were used originally and on Delco equipped cars, the starter circuit has 10 gauge wire whereas the early ('51/'52s) had Autolite which had 16 gauge wires for the starter circuit. There was/is a 3rd party company that sells "51-54 Henry J wiring..." kits as one part but  you'll have a lot of misery trying to engage a Delco starter solenoid with 16 gauge wire.
The door panels are original Henry J but they're out of a '51 as the '53 never used that style.
It appears the windshield wiper control (mounted on the face of the dash above the ignition switch) is either broken or non-original.
The windshield gasket lacks the chrome a Corsair Deluxe would've had originally and the concern here is on the '53 the rearview mirror mounts on the center bar of that windshield so where is the rear view mirror  on this one? If I recall correctly, when we were looking at other pictures of this one a year ago, it has a '53 mirror mounted through the headliner like a '51 which probably wouldn't work well as the mounting stem on the '53 mirror is very short compared to the one that was used on a '51 so it won't have much, if any, adjustability.
The gauges mounted under the dash are not original but may be a plus as you'll actually be able to have gauges instead of lights. I'd actually like that and mounted under the dash means no cuts or serious modifications were done.
The center grill bar sags big time - Dave, remember the part you were missing and I sent you the pictures of so you could make one? This car obviously needs the same thing.
The modern air cleaner on this car could spell trouble as the PCV circuit will not work. The factory air cleaner had a hose going to the oil filler spout to complete the PCV flow path; without it the crankcase is not properly ventilated. I don't know what problems this may cause.
It has a '53 hood ornament with a '51 plastic tip on it which is pretty common as the '51 tips are easily found but not the '53 style. I certainly wouldn't let that issue stand between me and a nice car, but there's more...

Again, if you're not all that concerned about originality, a lot of this won't matter, but if you want overdrive, it does not have it.

Most of the aforementioned issues can be corrected but they also mean more $$ spent to do it. You may be able to use them as bargaining power if you want to buy it. It is definitely not worth the asking price and in my opinion, not anywhere near a 5 figure price. When they tell you they have more than that into it, which they likely do, I would let them know that whoever did the restore should have done some research on it - BigDave did when he was restoring his and he's got a fine example now. Correct info is not that hard to find but because the Henry J was a cost cutter, most restorers etc. are not that serious and just assume they're all the same and one size fits all.

Here's the original thread on it. It was last April -obviously the link to the actual auction in it is no longer current.

http://kfclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,4518.msg19924.html#msg19924

[Fid]

I was just looking at that previous thread and that's right, there were no engine shots in that listing so we assumed it was a four cylinder based on lack of deluxe trim (windshield chrome, rear bumper gaurds and no dash cover). That makes sense and is likely the case - it was originally a four cylinder.
This means that any prospective buyer better get the VIN number off of this one. If it was originally a four cylinder, and was converted to a six, the fact that it doesn't have overdrive spells danger right there as the six cylinder cars without overdrive used a different rear end with a different ratio. If the engine was changed and the rear end was not (and most people will not know this) the car is worthless on the hiway as it will only do about 45 mph with the engine screaming.  Big red flag here! 
Find out what the VIN is - if it begins with K533 that indicates it was originally a four and someone converted it to a six and, I would bet, did not know enough to change the rear end - the way to tell is look at the tag on the rear end cover bolt; for a six without OD it should read 41/10. If not, avoid it like the plague.
And, if this is the case, the $8,000 that Jim said it sold for last year was too high and would also explain why it is for sale again so soon after.

That auction is still viewable at this site
http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=KC0413-151941&entryRow=614

And I remembered correctly about that mirror

It has the '53 mirror with the shorter stem mounted where the '51 mirror was - it can't be of much use like that. This was probably done because when the ''restorer" ordered the gasket from Rudy he said he needed the one without chrome.  But... the '53 had a single chrome bar down the middle to mount the mirror and that was not put back on.

mikemon22, you're doing the right thing, consult the experts here before spending any cash as there are a lot of cobbled together "original" and "restored" cars out there that people are trying to unload. Caveat emptor!

[Corsairdeluxe]

Old cars are a lot like women in some respects. One man’s beauty is another mans beast. I have owned a few Henry Js. One of my current and hard learned criteria is …”when I want something else or a different Henry J what can I get for this one”. I know in the rush of car desire it’s hard to be realistic but we have to try. The Carson car was not restored. It was rebuilt with little regard for original condition to the taste of the rebuilder. The result is a pretty attractive Henry J based automobile. If it has the curves and colors that turn you on and you gotta have it or die, go man go. Just hope that when the time comes to sell, your double is in the market to buy.

Fids comment on the correct rear end ratio is very important. Without the correct engine, transmission rear end combination ,the marriage will be dysfunctional at best.

[mikemon22]

Thank you Fid and  Corsairdeluxe. The information was very informative and greatly appreciated. I have learned over the years to take my time, do my research, and not let my emotions control my actions. This is my third time to join KFOCI and having this forum will be invaluable. The last time I was a member, all there was for communication was the paper bulletin. I will certainly seek everyone's comments for any car I consider as there are many members with much more knowledge than I'll ever acquire. What I left out of my original post was that in 1980, just before my retirement from the Air Force, I acquired two Henry J's in fairly rough condition. One was a driver and the other strictly sheet metal parts. Also, someone had given me extra some extra sheet metal. All of this was stored in and around my house. I was single then and having fun driving the Henry J. In 1984 I remarried. My wife was adamant that she did not want all of that junk sitting around the house and promised that if I got rid of it, I could buy a fully restored Henry J at some time in the future. I sold everything except for a couple of pieces of chrome which are displayed on the wall of my small workshop. In 2005 I found a beautiful, fully restored, 1951 Henry J without a trunk lid. When I mentioned buying it (we could afford it), I was met with all kinds of grief as to why we did not need to spend the money for the car. I gave in and have regretted it ever since, even though it did not have a truck lid. Well, in January of this year we celebrated our 30th wedding anniversary and look forward to many more. Much has change and I would really like to help my wife keep her original promise (and make me a happy camper). As to condition, I would like to have a correctly restored or original Henry J. Later, I think I would enjoy a professionally built gasser. I don't think I could bring myself to ever destroy an original, but if someone else has already done so, I could enjoy the fruits of their labor. Thanks to all who may have a part in fulfilling my dream.

[Corsairdeluxe]

You got your head in the right place. It may take a while but it will work out. One of the nicest 51s with out a trunk belonged to Alan Thomas. I let it get away.It sold 3 years ago on ebay for about $15,000.
 I think you will like the photos.I lost track of who has it.

[Corsairdeluxe]

More photos

Note the opening rear quarter vent

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

As a new member in the club, you should have received (or will soon receive) KFOCI HANDBOOK Version 5.0 on CD.  This contains A LOT of information on all Kaiser-Frazer (and some Willys) products including the Henry J and the Allstate. 

[mikemon22]

Jim, those are beautiful pictures. I especially like the rear window vents. I remember as a teenager at the drive-in, in my 1951, who ever was in the back seat would have appreciated a vent (although they still had a great time). I'm partial to the trunk lid as it makes it much easier to access the trunk. The back seat will be converted for use by my two Dobermans. One is a registered therapy dog and we do quite a bit of volunteering at nursing homes, children's shelter, libraries, and most importantly, the District Attorney's Office. The DA has a great program where young abused children are able to meet and bond with therapy dogs. Then we accompany them during all interviews and are right next to them in the witness stand should they have to testify. One of the great benefits of the program is that when the defendant(s) realize that the child is going to give credible testimony they will plead out rather than let the jury listen to the child describe what was done to them. The children seem to want a Doberman next to them and we get chosen a lot. And yes, there is a lot of abuse of children in the world. I love being retired and having time for the volunteer work. Having my lifetime Henry J will only make it sweeter.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

I hope you get your car.  Somewhere around 50% of all 1951 HJ's were built without deck lids as far as I can figure (production counts around the time the deck lid became available), most of the group 6 cylinder models.

Let me know what you think about the HJ material on the HANDBOOK CD.

[Corsairdeluxe]

Law enforcement dog story. I was on a flight out of  Pittsburg that had a bomb scare. They taxied us to the back of the airport, unloaded all the luggage in a line and made us stand by our bags until a FBI bomb sniffing dog was found and brought to go down the line. The very first bag he came to ,he stopped ,******ed his leg and peed all over it. He was taken away ,the baggage reloaded and we flew off! They gave out all the free liquor you wanted during the whole time and the crowd was sorta like a tailgate party at a ball game.

[mikemon22]

Corsairdeluxe - Alan Thomas's HenryJ is the one that I did not buy in 2005. I still have all of the pictures in my files and checked them - one and the same. It was an off-frame, ground-up restoration and even had all new wiring.