ebay seller petes auto data

[Jeri Conklin]

I'm attempting to locate paint chip color #230 blade green metallic for my 1949/1950 Frazer 4 door sedan. I noticed an advertised 1949 Kaiser Frazer Virginian Manhatten paint chip sheet for auction on ebay through seller petes auto data. I zoomed in on the picture that was associated with the ad and it was a "Willys" paint chip set. I emailed and asked about the descrepancy between the picture and the auction by-line and received a rather curt reply back to read the description of the auction item which I am including below. I am just wondering if anyone has had issues with this dealer before or if there is legitimacy to his auction item giving the picture of the proported item and the by-line group. Actually my email to the seller just asked if given the "Willys" paint chip set included color #230 if so then it didn't matter what the picture said. Has anyone else been successful with this seller? Did I miss something? I appreciate all feed back and assistance. Thank you all!

EXTREMELY RARE, VINTAGE AND ORIGINAL "ACME" PRODUCTS MINT EXTERIOR PAINT CHIPS FOR - THE KAISER - FRAZER CORPORATION - 1949 KAISER - FRAZER - CUSTOM - DELUXE - VIRGINIAN - MANHATTAN - SPECIAL - VAGABOND - TRAVELER - CONVERTIBLE - SEDAN 50 - ALL MODELS - 24 PAINT CHIPS.- THERE IS/ARE THREE SHEET(S) OF ORIGINAL "ACME" PRODUCTS  EXTERIOR PAINT CHIP COLOR CHARTS  AND INFORMATION INCLUDED IN THIS AUCTION.  - THIS ORIGINAL "ACME" PAINT CHIPS COLOR CHART IS IN EXCELLENT TO MINT CONDITION CONSIDERING THEIR AGE. - THIS ORIGINAL "ACME" PRODUCTS PAINT CHIPS COLOR CHART IS ON 8.5 in. x 11.0 in. CARD STOCK. - THE ORIGINAL "ACME" PRODUCTS PAINT CHIPS COLOR CHART YOU RECEIVE WILL BE THE CORRECT CHART FOR THE YEAR, MAKE AND MODEL THAT YOU BID ON AND WILL BE SIMILAR TO THE PAINT CHIPS COLOR CHART SHOWN IN THE AUCTION PICTURE. - THE "ACME" PRODUCTS PAINT CHIPS COLOR CHART IN THE AUCTION PICTURE IS REPRESENTATIVE OF THE PAINT CHIPS  COLOR CHART BEING OFFERED IN THIS AUCTION. 

[54 Kaiser]

eBay sellers that do this are a pain. They are too %(*^ lazy to take pictures of the actual product. Instead, they take one photo of "a" paint chip set which they may use on 20 or more auctions of paint chip sets and then tell you:

"THE "ACME" PRODUCTS PAINT CHIPS COLOR CHART IN THE AUCTION PICTURE IS REPRESENTATIVE OF THE PAINT CHIPS  COLOR CHART BEING OFFERED IN THIS AUCTION."

and

"THE ORIGINAL "ACME" PRODUCTS PAINT CHIPS COLOR CHART YOU RECEIVE WILL BE THE CORRECT CHART FOR THE YEAR, MAKE AND MODEL THAT YOU BID ON."

In other words, you have to take their word for it that they really have the right set for your car and that it contains the chips you are looking for. Unless of course they will accurately answer questions instead of flipping you off with "read the listing" comments. Keep in mind that this sort of "before sale" attitude will probably be reflective of the kind of service you'll get if you buy the set and it does NOT have the chip on it that you want.

My attitude on listings like this - even though I'm in Canada - is "I'm from Missouri. You'll have to show me".

Send back a similarly worded response that you aren't bidding on anything unless you see a picture of the actual item you want to bid on. Not a "representative" image. Don't expect a reply though. He's got over 2,800 items up right now and most of them are paint chips and lube charts. He won't have the time to research your question.

There are lots of different paint sets and lots of different manufacturers. In another spot, "Pete" has another listing for 1949 Kaiser DuPont paint chip set that has 35 paint chips on it. So, if DuPont had 35 chips in 1949, and "Acme" only had 24, it stands to reason the Acme set is missing at least 11 colours. Because even the DuPont set might not be complete. (So your question was completely valid and didn't deserve the kind of response you got.)

If you're willing to take a chance on this guy, then look at item 130315762117. It's the 35 chip DuPont set and you'll stand a better chance of your colour being on it.

Also, I have the DuPont chip set for 1954. Don't expect mixing information on these sets so you can go to a paint shop and have paint mixed. The chip cards (the ones I've seen) don't contain much more than the chip, the manufacturers colour number for it, and possibly the chip card makers paint type. (Dulux in my case.)

[Jeri Conklin]

Having seen too many Judge Judy shows with those who have bought what the auction item is listed as even though the picture accompanying the auction is not accurate and been stuck with what the picture was and not what it was listed as, I am hesitant to take the chance. Hopefully someone in the club will have a paint chip set and can sell or loan me #230 so I can get as close as match as possible. I'll also check out the dupont set listing you sent, I had not seen that. Trust me, his feedback will not be 100% positive from the tone of his email. There is no need to be rude to anyone who is a potential buyer. Thank you.

[Gordie]

Walter Miller has an ad in our Bulletin where he offers all paint chip sets for K-F for  $5.00 plus postage.  He is a dependable seller although he is so busy that you will not receive a reply to questions and calling just gets an answering machine.  Don't be in a rush as there are lots of them that turn up on eBay for from $5.00 to $15.00.

[ben-tex]

I think I remember reading that Pittsburg Paint has a cpmputer database that can match any KF color. If memory serves it was Jack Mueller who either wrote this or told me. Email Jack--his address is in the Bulletin.

[Jeri Conklin]

Thank you all for the great info and advice! I'm so excited to be a part of this great community!

[montefrazer]

"Don't expect mixing information on these sets so you can go to a paint shop and have paint mixed."
Even if you do get mixing instructions with the chips, don't expect to match the color using that formula. Much has changed in paints since the 40's. When I got the paint for my 48 Frazer about 10 years ago, the mixing formula wasn't very close to the color of the car. Lots of trial and error eye matching was needed. A nice paint chip and a computer match would be the way to go. If you use base coat/clear coat system don't expect it to look exactly like the color chip. Different reflection properties and clear has a slight hint of yellow to it. Makes it look close but not quite the same.

[54 Kaiser]

"Even if you do get mixing instructions with the chips, don't expect to match the color using that formula. Much has changed in paints since the 40's."

I tried to clarify that but didn't do a very good job of it Monte.

I have not found ANYONE with the mixing information in Canada for the original Kaiser colours. Most paint suppliers only go back to the late 60's or early 70's if you're lucky.

One thing you can do is find a piece of the car that is in good condition and still painted with the original colour (interior parts in some cases, inside of the gas filler door, etc.) and take it to a reputable paint supplier that will computer match it for you.

There is a good one in Toronto called "Paint Circuit" that will not only computer match paint for you, they can supply it in many different types of paint (single and two step, lacquer, enamel, etc.) but they will even load it into spray bombs for you if you want for smaller jobs. I have no affiliation with them so I hope it's safe to post the link. http://www.paintcircuit.com  It appears they work mail order if you can send them a colour sample.

[Jeri Conklin]

Great info for us all. I will be happ getting as close as possible to the original color. There is still a whole lot of faded color on the car, probably set out in a field for a number of years. Whatever we do it will be as close as possible. I understand the sheets won't have the color mixing on them, I was just looking for the most original color chip so I can see the actual color. Again, thank you all for the info I know it will help us all.

[HJ-ETEX]

My 51 DeLuxe was painted Carribean Coral. The paint chips show this color was a factory pack - a jobber couldn't mix the color. So I spent some 2 years looking and rejecting a number of possible duplicates from modern cars I saw on the road. I believe I came very close. My point is, even if you do have a chip, the mixing colors are probably not available and the chip itself probably won't be suitable to make a guess-a-mate on a custom mix. My advice is 1) find surface that has been hidden that was painted body color and use it to match (i.e. inside door sheet metal normally covered by the door upholstery, door jamb around the hinges, or the glove box) or 2) Get an idea of the color you want and start looking are the cars as they go by on the road until you see a suitable match.

[HJ-ETEX]

An additional comment: When I was researching the color on my 51 Deluxe, I bought several instrument clusters because the the back of the metal housing of the cluster was painted body color and it was hidden from most dirt and UV rays. Hence it was about the best location to make a color match. You don't have that option on your car, but it leads to another bit of advice. Use a membership in the KFOCI to your advantage by going to a meet and hopefully viewing another car with your color or finding a part with paint that can be matched. While it is nice if you can call someone who will give you an answer, sometimes you have to do some figuring of things on your own. 

[54 Kaiser]

HJ:

From what I've seen so far, this forum gives Kaiser owners the ability to "call" hundreds of owners for advise or ideas. That is one of the beauties of a place like this.

Kudo's to the club for putting it up. Hopefully more and more of the members of the club (and other Kaiser owners who are NOT members) will use the forum and share their experiences and knowledge.

I can't wait to go to a meet but that may be some time off in the future. I'm working on the car right now. So any opportunity to share and gain knowledge, is appreciated until such time as a "meet" comes up.

BTW, good advise on more areas to look for original paint. Even on a "rough" car, there will be some spots that escaped the ravages of weather and or poorly done repaints.

[hannahharstad]

Hey all, my boyfriend and I like to work on our bikes and on our car when we have the time and money to upgrade.  Our latest modification was installing a chrome car grill.  I was online this morning checking out some different products when I saw an electric supercharger.  It was significantly cheaper than your conventional supercharger AND it said you'd increase MPG.  Is this believable or a scam?  Because if it worked, and gave our car torque AND less time at the pumps, I AM IN!!

[kenneth]

If its to good to be true,it is just that!If it worked every new car would have one from the factory.