Trying to Start '53 Manhattan

[shadetree77]

Ok guys, need some help here. I've had my '53 Manhattan for a few months now but I've never tried to get it running. From what I understand it hasn't run since the 70's. This isn't the first time I've tried to get an old dormant engine started so I know the general procedure but I'm still having an issue with this one. I'll try to explain.

I bought a new 6 volt battery. I have it hooked up correctly. I know it is positive ground and that the + coil wire goes to the distributor. The engine will turn over and it has even begun to catch a few times but my main issue seems to be with the starter. When I am cranking the engine, the starter will begin to turn the engine and then it disengages from the flywheel and just spins. No grinding noises or anything. It just seems to randomly disengage. So the starter will not spin the engine long enough for it to come to life.

I thought maybe my battery was too weak so I had it tested. They said it tested good. I also thought maybe it might have something to do with a defective neutral safety switch or solenoid so I jumpered the battery directly to the starter for a few tries and it's still doing the same thing.

Any suggestions for me guys?

[joefrazer]

Beginning in 1952, Delco started using a follow thru starter bendix. This kept the starter engaged longer and avoided issues like you're experiencing. I'd be willing to bet your starter is a 51 unit. Check the tag on it...if the serial number starts with a zero or one, then it's an earlier unit. If not, it's time for a rebuild.

[51Deluxe]

Since the starter is probably toast anyway, you could hook up a 12v battery and try starting it in short bursts, the bendix might stay engaged with that much voltage. Keep any lights turned off as they wouldn't survive. Chances are the coil will be OK. As soon as you get it running swap in the 6v.

[BigDave LM6174]

I agree that it sounds like the starter is toast or it is a an earlier unit.

[shadetree77]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I checked the number on the starter. The entire stamped number on the tag is 11? 126 2H18 I think the ? is a 5 but not sure. Hard to read. Is 2H18 the serial number? I noticed it says "model" underneath the 11? part on the left side and "serial" underneath the 2H18 on the right side.

 Just for giggles I went through and cleaned all of the contacts on the solenoid, starter, and battery cables. Still disengaging.

51Deluxe, I guess I'll give that a try. I'll hook up my 12V battery and then have the 6V close by. If the engine starts I'll yank the 12V as quick as I possibly can and swap in the 6V. The engine will continue to run off of the charging system during the swap right?

[Fid]

If the charging system is working properly you should be able to remove the battery when the car is running and it will continue to run without.  If you're going to use a 12 volts you may want to bypass the solenoid and go directly to the starter with a jumper cable. The problem with that is you can't operate the gas pedal if you're out jumping the starter so you may need to involve a helper.

[joefrazer]

2H18 = August 18, 1952 build.

To decode any KF Delco starter, distributor or generator - the first number is the year of construction. The letter corresponds to the month. In this case H is the eighth letter in the alphabet and August is the eighth month (the letter I is skipped so a J would mean a September build). The last two digits are the day of the build.

Harrison radiators used in the 1951 thru 55 cars have the same date code system.

By the way, the starter part number should be 1102126.

[shadetree77]

So then I guess I do have the correct starter. A rebuild it is. But first, I do have some EXCITING news. I went back out there to give 51Deluxe's suggestion a try. I got some jumper cables and hooked up a good 12V battery out of one of my other cars to the starter on the Kaiser.....but the starter barely moved.....? I tried all kinds of arrangements and grounds to try to get the starter moving on the 12V battery. Nothing. It barely moved at first and then it just stopped moving altogether.

Oh crap. I thought I might have fried my Kaiser's starter. I unhooked the 12V and put it on the charger but the charger said "Charge Complete" so that battery is fine. Don't know what the deal was there but I decided to hook the 6V back up and make sure the starter would still spin.

Mind you, I was not trying to start the car at this point. Merely checking the starting system. I jumped in the car and hit the switch and the engine sputtered and backfired through the carburetor!! WHOA!! I got out, poured a little gas down the carb., and tried it again. IT'S ALIIIIIIIIIIVE!!!! IT'S ALIIIIIIIIIVE!!!!! It ran until the small gas supply I had rigged up ran out. It actually sounded really good too. This is the first time that this Kaiser has run since 1974. Click the link below to check out the video. I'll try to start it again when the wife gets home so I can keep it supplied with gas. If it starts, look for a better video soon.

By the way, the first time I tried it in the video the starter disengaged and spun. You can hear it on there. That's what it has been doing the entire time. It's still doing that but I guess I just got lucky this time and the engine caught.

http://youtu.be/PqZgg4uvqe0

[joefrazer]

Congrats on getting the engine to run!

Listening to the way the engine cranked, it sounds like you may have a valve stuck open. That momentary cycle where the rotation hits the cylinder with no compression will cause the starter to speed up and kick out. I would free up any stuck valves and then test the starters operation. It might be OK.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

If you try a 12v emergency start with todays thinner battery cables, you may not draw enough current even at 12V to turn the starter over.  I speak from personal experience.  You need heavy-duty cables for best results.

[Gordie]

Too much gas poured into the carb sometimes causes it to disengage too.  Maybe when it is running the valves will begin to seat in better.  Congratulations on getting it running!

[shadetree77]

Thanks guys. It was very exciting to hear that Supersonic Six roar to life. As for the stuck valves, I guess I could try Kaiser Bill's method as listed in his "Old Car Start-Up Procedure". It involves pouring a 50/50 mix of gas and Marvel Mystery down the carb. while the engine is running. I do have one more clue to this that points to the starter though. Sometimes, the starter will just emit a loud CLICK and/or CLUNK sound instead of spinning. It will do this for several tries and then it will randomly start working again.

If anyone is interested in listening to what is happening in more detail and then hearing the engine run for much longer click the link below to go to my second video. It takes a little over a minute to get the engine started during which it does both the kick out spinning and the click/clunk sound I mentioned. I'm open to more diagnostic suggestions if anyone notices anything. Thanks for the help guys.

By the way, I think you are correct about the jumper cables being too small. They are 10 gauge cables and they got very warm during the process. Guess I need some thicker cables.

http://youtu.be/HE12AsKrtww

[joefrazer]

I would replace the solenoid...most of the issues with it clicking are due to it, and the starter should come off and get cleaned and lubed. The Mystery Oil trick works, I've done it. Another idea would be squirt some transmission fluid in the spark plug hole(s) of the cylinders with stuck valves. Then crank the engine with the coil wire off to work the fluid down each valve stem. Let it sit overnite.

[HJ-ETEX]

A reminder: The spark plug on a flathead engine is usually above and between the valves, not the cylinder. Still if the goal is to lube the valve stems, it may be necessary to use tubing to direct the flow of oil on to the stem.

[84RabbitGTI]

1951 Starter-rebuilt three times, tests fine under load on the bench, occasionally doesn't even spin when installed in the car, and when it does it turns as if the battery was nearly dead.  Battery tests fine, cables are all 6V sized.  Replacement starter from a junked car works just fine in the same car.   
I feel your pain.  Congrats on getting her started!!