52 Kaiser

[Mr Manhattan]

http://huntsville.craigslist.org/cto/4966855016.html

Looks decent until you see the absence of floors ))

[joefrazer]

Let's see...

52 rear bumper and tail lights
51 Front bumper
The hood V looks aftermarket, or maybe a 52-3 K with the insert surround broken off
49-51 Frazer hood ornament
51 trunk lid handle

The Budweiser can lends a real touch of class!

I'd like to see more pictures of the Nash next to it. I used to own one of them.

[Fid]

The two piece windshield indicates it was likely  '51 or a '52 Virginian. It's been on ebay before.

[Roadmaster49]

Fid
Do the outside trunk lid hinges indicate Virginian as well?

In any case, this is a ? $700 car. Because you can not SAFELY drive it anywhere despite the seller stating it runs. 

[Fid]

The outside trunk hinges were used on all '52 Kaisers - the Manhattan and Deluxe too. The '53s were the first have them inside.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Hey, don't you know that 1952 Virginians are re-tagged and re-badged 1951 Kaisers that were either unsold in factory inventory or were work in process on the line when the 1951 model year production ended on November 4, 1951?  After the remaining 1951 model year Kaiser or HJ orders were shipped out in early November, conversion work started and a month later, the Virginian program was announced to dealers.

Look it up in KFOCI HANDBOOK

[Roadmaster49]

Depends on who you are questioning Jack, but I think all of us know the story of the Virginians for those years.

I had a 1949 Kaiser and I thought it had 'hidden' trunk hinging.  But my 49 Virginian had the external hinges. I figured KF brought back the external hinging for the 51-52 Virginian run as a cue to the original and authentic Virginian.

[Fid]

The '49/'50 Virginians and convertibles had external trunk hinges but the rest of the '49/'50 line did not.  When I hosted a meet here in 2005, Del Fankhauser asked a fellow to come and speak at the banquet.  I wish I could remember his name but he worked for Kaiser-Frazer and one of the stories he told was about going to the dealers and converting the '51 Kaisers and Henry Js to '52 Virginians  / Vagabonds respectively.  He said they had to make sure all the windows were covered so no one could see in and that they replaced the tags, hood ornaments and added fender flank scripts. My '52 Henry J Vagabond did not have the continental kit and he told me if they didn't have one in their inventory, the cars didn't get one. Even though they were advertised as a feature of these cars, I've seen a number of '52 HJ Vagabonds that did not have one.  I've also seen at least one '52 Virginian that didn't have one. My guess would be the ones sitting at the factory got them but the those sitting at dealerships may not have depending on the inventory and the mood of the rep who was supposed to convert them. No documentation to back this up but I do know AZ HJ had found later documentation stating the Continental Kit was optional on the '52 HJ Vagabond. Perhaps KF adjusted the literature to reflect inconsistencies in how reps converted the cars.  If we elaborate more, maybe a new thread is needed.

[Gordie]

That is very interesting and in reviewing the literature for both the Virginian and Henry J Vagabond it does definitely offer the continental kit as a feature of the new cars.  Newspaper mats also state that the cars come with a continental kit but for the later 1952 models the continental kit is not shown but is mentioned as an option.  Fid's story from the past meet sure does make sense. The continental kits were not even available until early 1952 so it it is not very likely that many of the dealers would have them in stock at conversion time.  The continental kit was not listed in the accessory price lists until November 26, 1951. The continental kit for the Henry J was announced with Accessory Bulletin 56-A on Oct. 12 1951 but the Kaiser kits were announced with Accessory Bulletin 4-B on January 22, 1952.  Perhaps the factory had a large quantity of them from the supplier before they were  offered to the dealers?

[joefrazer]

A local fellow has a 52  HJ Vagabond that was never equipped with a continental kit. His brother bought it new in cleveland.

[DaveF]

Can I get an explanation why this 52 Kaiser has a 51 front end?  Is it one of the left-over 51 models?  Doesn't seem to be.  I wonder what the firewall tag says? 

Thanks, Dave F. #10113

[joefrazer]

This car looks like a 51 Kaiser that someone reworked with some later parts. The rear bumper and tail lights are 52-3 units and the hood ornament is 49-51 Frazer.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

There is a bit of conflict on the creation of the 1952 Virginians and Vagabonds (if you can call it that).  Both types were officially announced to dealers on December 5, 1951; a document from the Detroit MI regional sales office for Kaiser-Frazer Sales Corporation puts the last day of 1951 model year production as November 4, 1951.  1952 Kaiser Virginian cars were announced in Dealer Confidential Bulletin #69 or (depending on how the retailer was categorized) Direct Dealer Bulletin #72.   1952 Vagabonds were presented in Dealer Confidential Bulletin #70 or Direct Dealer Bulletin #73.

Both vehicle types could be ordered from the factory with the optional, factory-installed "Continental" tire kits ($87.54 plus 6.39 Federal tax for Henry J, $136.99 plus $10.41 Federal Tax for the Kaiser).  Henry J's and Kaiser Special Virginians with the option also had to have the Tail Pipe Extension at an added cost of $2.00 plus $0.15 Federal Tax; Kaiser Deluxe Virginians came with the extension as part of its Accessory Group items.  These bulletins also show a range of monotone (one color) and two-tone paint jobs for various models.  Kaiser Virginian availabilities for dealers in the Western United States included the remaining inventory from the Portland, Oregon Assembly plant ( which may have included anything left at Long Beach CA).   This would indicate that at least some of these cars were redone at the factory, from finished goods and/or the cars on the production line that were built out. 

Actual production figures from Kaiser-Frazer that surfaced not long ago lend credence to the story that at least some 1952 Vagabonds or Virginians were re-tagged 1951 model year cars in distributor (especially factory-owned distributorships) or dealer inventories.  However, a memo dated January 8. 1952 by DeBoer Motors, K-F distributor in Milwaukee WI to dealers in their sales territory includes "We have a number of 1951 Henry J and Kaisers, all models on hand which must be sold and we expect each dealer's cooperation in the movement of '51 models.  If each dealer will do his part in taking just one unit, it will reduce our stock so we can order "52 models.  May we have your order today while you have a choice of color and model 

The memo also advised dealers to retain the distributor's price list dated October 31, 1951 for wholesale and retail suggested list prices.    It should also be noted that the serial numbers for a Vagabond or Virginian run based on the 1951 HJ or Kaiser model year with a K52 prefix on it.  The only ones I know of reflect the tail end of HJ and Kaiser production for the 1951 model year.

[Fid]

Can I get an explanation why this 52 Kaiser has a 51 front end?  Is it one of the left-over 51 models?  Doesn't seem to be.  I wonder what the firewall tag says?

Because the KFs used basically only two different body shells, you often see resto/custom jobs done with a mix-match of parts as most just bolt right on.  I've seen just about every combination of KF model/year parts cobbled together at one time or another. You see it most often on the Henry J as many features were omitted or later became optional so they were often put together based on what the restorer wanted as opposed to making them authentic or original. 
Another reason is in the days before the internet, when you simply had to scour the country for that one rare part you needed, you often had to settle for something non-original in order to get your car on the road. Then there's personal preference - someone restores a '52 but likes the '51 grill / tail lights better or visa-versa and that's what they install. The car changes hands 3 or 4 times and the latest owner has no idea it is not original. These types generally don't like to be told their cars are not "all original" as the person they bought it from claimed. 

[Gordie]

How true!  My 39,000 mile '51 Kaiser had extra bumper guards, '52 tail lights and hood emblem installed when I bought it from the estate of the original owner.  It came from Dearborn and I drove it to my first National Meet at Pigeon Forge TN  and entered it in the modified class.  All of the original parts came with the car so when I got it home I put everything back as original.  You never know what these cars have been thru over  the years.