Author Topic: Judging manual  (Read 25444 times)

AZ_HJ

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2009, 10:42:40 AM »
To Char, Chief Judge of KFOCI,
 
I wish to recommend that we hold off on implementing Jack's 1951 Henry J Models K513 & 514 and Henry J Vagabond Models K523 & K524 Standards. Jack was kind enough to send me a draft copy of it a few days back. I have had time to look through it and it may require some changes. Jack has done an exceptional job in assembling this information. I have contacted Jack and ask if I might send in my recommendations along with supporting documention. He has contacted me and is open to hear them, as I knew he would. He indicated that what he has assembled are to be a 'starting point'. So lets build on these as quickly as possible and then implement them.

Best regards,

Mark Steele KFOCI # 9311
1952 Henry J Vagabond Deluxe.
Sun City, AZ
1948 Willy CJ2A Jeep
1952 Henry J Vagabond Deluxe
1953 Kaiser Traveler Deluxe

kaiserfrazerlibrary

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2009, 05:16:28 PM »
To Mark Steele and others of similar bent.


It is my opinion that Mark Steele is has mis-stated my position on the judging standards drafts for reasons of his own.  I have never suggested, required or otherwise stated that the drafts as they sit be implemented.  Mark, you need to clarify your posting and I believe an apology from you is in order.

If you read through my postings on this topic you will see that I repeatedly state that these are rough drafts and are no where near a finished state.  Mark's first line states that the club should "hold off" implementing the standards, then states later that I indicated the material as a starting point...the last part is true.  The lie is that I never suggested the material be implemented as they sit as a standard to judge cars by.  Not only in my postings, but in my cover emails on draft copies sent to those requesting them, I stated that these are not ready for use, and have not represented as such.  They will require review, expansion and a number of general questions will have to be settled and included in a final draft.  Even then, it will have to be "tested" against cars in various conditions, tweaked and cleaned up.  I figure that even if things started January 1, 2010, it would probably be at least the 2013 National before it would be ready for use and even then, a transition period may be in order.


AZ_HJ

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2009, 06:31:39 PM »
Jack please accept my apology for any mis-statment of anything that you said.
1948 Willy CJ2A Jeep
1952 Henry J Vagabond Deluxe
1953 Kaiser Traveler Deluxe

Gordie

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2009, 07:24:33 PM »
Jack, thanks for making the judging standards available to the members.  It is expected that changes and additions will be necessary before they are finished and thanks Mark for getting back with some suggestions.  I don't know how much time Jack can devote to this but we all need to try to get these guidelines and read them and get back to Jack with ideas.  Not all of them will be valid but lets get this thing rolling.  WE can make things happen!
Member #3151 Since June 1974
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kaiserfrazerlibrary

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2009, 09:23:46 PM »
Char approached me about judging standards for the Darrin.  Even though she did not share with me the rough draft she created, she expected me to supply information (sorry, Char...how can I give you additional info if I don't know what you already have?).  According to her e-mail she apparently plans to do 1 or 2 classes per year...at that rate it will take more than 10 years to create judging standards that may very well have to be updated and revised by then...just like the way people used to do the HANDBOOK, and us older members know what happened to the first 3 tries at that thing.

Sorry, I cannot be a party to that kind of activities.

Jack Mueller
Club Historian

AZ_HJ

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2009, 10:13:01 AM »
Does anyone have a copy of the current Judging Sheet that is used. If the do an they e-mail it to me. AZSteele123@aol.com.

Jack, If you were in Char shoes how would you approach moving forward with what you have given her? Would it be what you have already posted in this forum?
1948 Willy CJ2A Jeep
1952 Henry J Vagabond Deluxe
1953 Kaiser Traveler Deluxe

pnw_oldmags

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2009, 11:24:57 AM »
Hi There,

This is what I believe to be the current judging sheet.

http://circlekf.com/pnwkfoci/KF%20Meet%20Entry%20Judging%20Sheet.pdf

Hope this link works

This is the judging sheet used at the KFOCI Natl in 2008.  My apologies if changes have been approved since.

Travel On,
« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 11:36:10 AM by pnw_oldmags »
Jim Betts  LM6945
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AZ_HJ

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2009, 12:11:47 PM »
Jim,

Thanks, We have not talked in a long time. How is your Henry J coming?

1948 Willy CJ2A Jeep
1952 Henry J Vagabond Deluxe
1953 Kaiser Traveler Deluxe

pnw_oldmags

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2009, 12:49:13 PM »
No progress on HJ as I bought a 53K Manhattan 2 Door which is taking all my time now.  Not trying to do a complete restore but trying to build a driver.
Thanks for asking
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Fid

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2009, 01:14:05 PM »
Do you still have the Manhattan that was purchased from the owner of "Lasagna?"
1953 Henry J Corsair Deluxe
Edgar Kaiser's custom 1951 Henry J
1951 Kaiser Special
1952 Allstate Deluxe

Need your classic car radio repaired? I repair vacuum tube radios

pnw_oldmags

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2009, 01:26:34 PM »
No - that 53 Manhattan 4-Dr is now in Kaiser Bill's Museum in Utah.  I miss it.  Regret selling but Bill really wanted it as it was like the one he and his wife took on their honeymoon.
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dusty

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2009, 07:05:45 PM »
Jack Mueller has been working on judging guidelines for each model of our Kaiser's and Frazer's for years.  I hope that you get in touch with him as he has pictures as well.  I have seen some of the guidelines and they will be of tremendous help to both the judges as well as the owners.  He covers every visible part of the car and lists what is authentic or not for each model.  The guidelines need to be implemented as soon as possible so that they can be fine tuned for judging.  As you know, judging of the cars has been a big problem for the club since the beginning.

dusty

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2009, 07:19:23 PM »
TO THOSE THAT ARE WORKING ON THE JUDGING MANUAL, PLEASE KEEP UP THE WORK THAT YOU ALL HAVE DONE AND GET IT FORMULATED FOR ALL THE CLUB TO PARTICIPATE IN. yOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE THE NAY SAYERS I HAD TO CONTEND WITH IN FOR YEARS IN GETTING ALL THE VINYLS REPRODUCED. I GOT THE SAME TREATMENT IN WORKING WITH THE OLD TIMERS IN GETTING A WORKING AGREEMENT TO PRODUCE THE LUXURA AND LAMAR MATERIAL. AT TIMES I WAS TOTALLY DEPRESSED UNTIL I SAW HOW PEOPLE WERE USING TRUCK UPHOLSTERY AND VELOUR(MOUSE FUR) AND WERE CALLING THE CAR RESTORED. THE SAME GOES IN THE PARTS SOURCES I WORK ON THAT LISTS MANY REPRODUCED PARTS FROM OTHER SOURCES THE WERE USED BY KAISER

kaiserfrazerlibrary

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2009, 09:55:26 PM »
Charlotte Dayton has never requested the full set of drafts; the only one she asked for covered 1953 Kaiser Deluxe Traveler, the same kind of Kaiser she has.

If I was in charge of this, here's roughly how I would proceed:

1.  Get together a group of 5 or 6 knowledgeable club members, who have expertise in different areas (Darrin, 1947-50 Kaiser, 1947-51 Frazer, 1951-53 Kaiser, 1954-55 Kaiser, etc) and see if they would commit to working with me (and others) as a team.
2.  I would update the old drafts, taking into account materials I've acquired since these were done.
3.  Circulate the updated drafts to the appropriate members of the group for comment and discussion.
4.  BASED ON INFORMATION IN FACTORY AUTHORED MATERIALS (Service Bulletins, Confidential Bulletins or Trade Letters, etc) make any needed additions to the updated drafts.
5.  Since Barbara and I will not be in TX for this year's National (sorry, Barbara can't do the heat down there in the summer) deputize someone from the team to oversee "tests" on cars and get feedback.
6.  Refinment of standards based on feedback and test results at the 2010 National
7.  Run additional test judging activities at Midwest, Eastern and/or Western Division spring meets in 2011
8.  Refine as required per results of (7).
9.  If the team is confident of the product (standards) they would be presented to the membership at the 2011 National for acceptance and if accepted, a 2-year "transition period" would take place, allowing members so disposed to bring their cars into conformance as may be required.   First year of judging using the standards officially would be 2012.  During the transition period, some deviation may be allowed.
10.  There is the time line for the project.  I believe it can be done.










« Last Edit: December 22, 2009, 09:57:41 PM by kaiserfrazerlibrary »

Gordie

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Re: Judging manual
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2009, 02:44:23 PM »
Jack,  that is a great idea.  Count me in for the Graham Paige Frazer's and early Kaiser's.  Come'on guys, please sign on and lets get this thing rolling.  We will have guidelines that are authentic and we all can be proud of them!
Member #3151 Since June 1974
Vice President K.F.O.C.I. 2013-2017  President 2018-2019
'47 Graham Paige Frazer                                   
'51 Kaiser Deluxe club coupe       
'51 Kaiser customized convertible 
'52 Allstate serial#39
'53 Aero Eagle
'54 Aero Eagle Custom