Author Topic: Rear brakes  (Read 4526 times)

shawn_and_his_kaiser

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Rear brakes
« on: April 21, 2016, 06:30:50 PM »
This doesn't look fun... I need to redo my rear brakes in my much loved 1951 Kaiser Special. Advice?
1951 Kaiser Special

54manhattan13

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Re: Rear brakes
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2016, 07:57:58 PM »
Will require a drum puller. I got mine in a puller set from NAPA. It includes a good variety of pullers to do most any type of pulling required. Cost me about $100.00.

Fid

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Re: Rear brakes
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2016, 09:57:11 PM »
1953 Henry J Corsair Deluxe
Edgar Kaiser's custom 1951 Henry J
1951 Kaiser Special
1952 Allstate Deluxe

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checker

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Re: Rear brakes
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2016, 03:46:16 PM »
Hello, I'm doing the exact same job as we speak, got all rear brakes hardware off and cleaned up, rebuilded the cylinders.

I'm ready to re-assemble but missing one sring on one side. The lower smaller one.

Is there a standard spring kit that would get me one ? (maybe a kit for a more recent model that would include an equivalent spring)

Thanks

Doc

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Re: Rear brakes
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2016, 04:12:44 PM »
Try NAPA. Have seen them on ebay as well.
'54 Manhattan
'54 Late Special
'51 Frazer sedan

Fid

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Re: Rear brakes
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2016, 05:04:31 PM »
The lower brake shoe anker spring is KF part number 200189. Looks like it was used on all KF except HJ and Darrin.

This could possibly be the same one. Have a look at one of yours and compare.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-KAISER-WILLYS-JEEP-9-BRAKE-LOWER-SHOE-SPRING-1953-71-805602-/182111502176?hash=item2a66b0ff60:g:Oy8AAOSwPhdU8myu&vxp=mtr
1953 Henry J Corsair Deluxe
Edgar Kaiser's custom 1951 Henry J
1951 Kaiser Special
1952 Allstate Deluxe

Need your classic car radio repaired? I repair vacuum tube radios

shawn_and_his_kaiser

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Re: Rear brakes
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2016, 08:19:14 PM »
How did it go taking those rear drums off, were the cylinders easy to rebuild?
1951 Kaiser Special

checker

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Re: Rear brakes
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2016, 04:37:31 PM »
Guys,

So, I just re-assembled the rear brakes with cylinders I rebuilded myself.
I bled all 4 corners and after I applied brakes a few times, no more leakage but those rear brakes don't seem to fully release...they drag without applying brake pressure now (parking brake is not even connected yet and eccentric adjusters are not even touching the shoes).

Is that a common behavior with self-rebuilded cylinders (something people forget or do wrong)? Any tips ?  :'(

Thanks

joefrazer

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Re: Rear brakes
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2016, 08:02:01 PM »
Check the adjusters - it sounds like they may need some fine tuning.

MarkH

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Re: Rear brakes
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2016, 09:10:42 PM »
Check the adjusters - it sounds like they may need some fine tuning.

You didn't mention the fronts binding or how crusty or clean the assembly is but assuming it's clean:

You reassembled the rear cylinders with exactly the same type of parts that came out?

1: Ditto on the adjusters.
2: Pull a drum & see if you can push the piston in the rest of the way by pushing the shoes by hand or a clamp.
3: Sometimes the inner lining of the rubber hoses will swell enough to constrict the line, brakes work great with pedal pressure but won't fully release. This will cook your brakes, and more.
4: Possibly the friction points where the metal edge of the shoe frame rubs the back plate need a dab of lithium?
5: Were your springs stretched or did the coils snap tight when they were removed?

The first time I had #3 happen it was a real stumper. I recently read somewhere that a rubber line has a 6yr life although almost all I've owned were never changed.

On the DOT 5 fluid issue.
I'm doing some brake work on my Aero, got new rear cylinders installed and ordered a rebuild kit from NAPA this morning to freshen up an NOS master cylinder being installed. I asked about DOT 5 and they checked with the suppliers tech support who said to use DOT 4 with their kit.
Fully restored '54 Aero Lark
Rusty '58 Austin Healey 100-Six
Barely running'74 Chevelle Malibu

Bobm90

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Re: Rear brakes
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2016, 07:47:26 AM »
I have to add a big YES to MarkH comment #3, I had issues with one car that had complete swelling closed of rubber brake lines, while you have it apart or if you have doubts check them early on in your brake repair. I had 3 lines closed on one car and it made me nuts till I found it.
1931 Model A Ford Deluxe Coupe
1959 Mercury 4 Dr
1958 Chevrolet Bel Air 2 Dr
1959 Morris Minor 1000 2 Dr
1954 Kaiser Manhattan 4 Dr

Fid

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Re: Rear brakes
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2016, 10:55:59 AM »
Quote
3: Sometimes the inner lining of the rubber hoses will swell enough to constrict the line, brakes work great with pedal pressure but won't fully release. This will cook your brakes, and more.

I agree. Change the hoses - 2 in front, one in back. They shrink and swell shut.  Take one off and see if you can blow air though it - my guess is you won't be able to.
If you can't, replace it. If the car has the original hoses, just replace them regardless.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 10:48:44 AM by Fid »
1953 Henry J Corsair Deluxe
Edgar Kaiser's custom 1951 Henry J
1951 Kaiser Special
1952 Allstate Deluxe

Need your classic car radio repaired? I repair vacuum tube radios

checker

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Re: Rear brakes
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2016, 07:39:58 PM »
OK, my rear brakes seem to be working now but even though I bled all brakes, I always have to press twice on the pedal cause the first time the pedal is spongy, the second time is ok ? Does that confirm the hoses theory as well ?

Thanks for all your advices by the way, I'm posting this for the benefit of others unexperienced fellows with old stuff, like me.

Bernie

MarkH

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Re: Rear brakes
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2016, 09:00:57 PM »
Pedaling twice is not normal, probably adjustment, a bit of air or soft hoses.

1: Set adjusters on all 4 wheels for slight drag
2: Air in the lines
3: Soft hoses
4: Check valve in nose of master cylinder allowing too much back flow so residual (at rest) line pressure drops below 10lb per sq. in.

Thoroughly re-bleed the brakes till fresh fluid comes out every cylinder.........after fitting new hoses.

Since drag was your primary issue, AND you've had the system opened up & apart, #4 is a long shot but can cause this. Drums require 10lbs, discs 2lbs of back pressure to eliminate excessive pedal travel.
Fully restored '54 Aero Lark
Rusty '58 Austin Healey 100-Six
Barely running'74 Chevelle Malibu

pnw_oldmags

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Re: Rear brakes
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2016, 11:57:08 PM »
I am developing a theory about bleeding brakes ... especially rear brakes on old Kaisers with saggy rear springs.  Jack up the differential to insure it is higher than the master cylinder.  Brake fluid is very thin and air bubbles will rise toward the wheel cylinder if it is higher.  Or float back to toward the master while you pump it up!

Whatch all think??
Jim Betts  LM6945
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