Hood supports and hood ornaments...

[jasonrocksout]

Couple questions:

1st, does anyone have exact specs for making new "hood support braces"?  I found a thread from a few years ago where Fid and BigDave were discussing it (and I appreciated seeing the picture you'd posted, Fid) but I'm just wondering if anyone's got, essentially, instructions for replicating them (since I'm guessing they're not parts I'm just going to find easily...)

2nd, hood ornaments.  I also found a few older threads where comparison pictures had been posted, but most of them appear to not be on whatever server they were linked to at the time anymore and so aren't loading.  So I'm just wanting to know definitively what the different ornaments correlate to, in terms of which ones had clear tips and which had black, and which had the round plastic bit around the spear vs. which had the... I guess triangular plastic bit around the spear...

EDITED TO ADD:

OK, 3rd, I see in the 52/53 Parts list under 18.100 it also lists "Anti-Squeak, Rear Cross Brace (3" Long) - quantity 3.  What is that?

Many thanks 

[Aeroman]

The spear point on the Henry J was changed twice. It started as a clear bullet, was a black bullet for the '52's then went back to clear but with wings for the '53's & '54's. I seem to think there were two or three rings carved into the bullet near the base on the wingless models. HJ expert care to clarify?

[jasonrocksout]

Well I think I've got one mystery solved?  Looking through the 52/53 parts list, it appears that the black tip was for the 52 Vagabonds only (the series A cars), not the Corsair/Corsair Deluxe (series b) models.  Those appear to have had the clear tips...  Though the 52 and 53 both list different part #s for the clear tips?

Now the "rings" part Aeroman mentioned...  I guess that's another question 

[Fid]

The spear point on the Henry J was changed twice.

Actually it was changed 4 times and one persons claims 5.

Here are the Henry J hood ornaments for the respective model/year cars:

1951 ornament, KF part number 212041. The most common and yet the only true distinguishing feature on the '51 Henry J

This a scaled down version of the '51 Kaiser ornament.

The '52 Henry J Vagabond (referred to as "early '52" in KF literature) had this ornament. Same as '51 but black plastic

This is a scaled down version of the '52 Kaiser Virginian ornament. Parts book only lists numbers for the black tip (nose 213514) and ring (213513).

The '52 Corsairs (Corsair and Corsair Deluxe) had this ornament. The clear plastic tip is not the same as that on the '51 ornament

This is a scaled down version of the later '52 Kaiser ornament.  The parts book does not list a number for it as unit but lists  - Body 213899, Wing (plastic) 213332, nose 213296.

The '53/'54 Henry Js had this ornament

Unlike all of its predecessors, this one is not a scaled down version of its Kaiser counter part.  It too does not have a part number for the unit but a break down of Body 213937, Wing (chrome metal) 213901, Nose 213902

I know kaiserfrazerlibrary claims the '54 J had a tip which was the same as the '53 but black, but I respectfully disagree.  It would make sense that KF would make this change but I have seen no evidence of it. I've seen a number  of '54 Henry Js and never saw one with a black tip.  The '54 Henry J owners manual does not show one, nor is there a part number listed anywhere for one.  Neither of our claims can be proven or dis-proven at this time so we'll just have to agree to disagree. I welcome his comments.

[jasonrocksout]

Greatly appreciated Fid, that's what I was looking for re: the hood ornament 

Now I just need to find a new "wing" piece for my 52... since mine is partially broken off, sadly.

Have you any insight into the dimensions, etc., for the hood support braces?

[Fid]

That's a tough part to find. I know pnw_oldmags had some at one time, so did mbfleming. Post it in the Parts wanted section and see what happens.

[shawn_and_his_kaiser]

The first two pictures are also the same as my 1951 Kaiser Special...in clear.

[mbflemingkf]

Shawn, in photos yes.  However in reality, the HJ ornaments are smaller versions of their larger counterparts used on the full size Kaisers. Smaller=not interchangeable.   

[Fid]

However in reality, the HJ ornaments are smaller versions of their larger counterparts

Correct. The Henry J version is about 16" tip to tip, the Kaiser version 21" tip to tip.
You can usually tell the difference in pictures.  Here's the one from my '51 Kaiser Special



This frame is from the Number 1 issue of Dennis The Menace in 1953. It's easy to see where the artist got the model for the hood ornament in the comic

[Fid]

Have you any insight into the dimensions, etc., for the hood support braces?

I think Big Dave made a set a few  years ago. Perhaps he can provide some input.  They fasten to the hood ornament mounting bolts at one  end and to the corners of the hood on the other end.  The previous thread may give you some insight on how to measure for them.
http://kfclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,4479.0.html

It starts out as a hood ornament thread but goes into the topic of the braces.
I did go out and measure the ones on my car and they're 18.5" - 19" in overall length.  Looks like 3/8" round stock.

[Vagabond Russ]

I have found the Henry J hood a poorly designed cheap imitation for an auto hood.  It's bad enough reaching through the grille opening to release both latches and then raise the heavy hood with the left arm while fumbling for and attaching the dinky hood rod with the right hand.

Closing the hood requires the utmost care.  The hood must be gently closed while guided into position, otherwise the drivers front of the hood overlaps the fender by an inch and removes the fender paint.

It is with interest I have read this thread re: hood braces.  I thought about this for awhile and remember two black metal rods in one of my HJ boxes of parts.  These rods looked like fender support rods, but were too long to fit the rear fenders.

Well, lo and behold, I located the rods today and they measured as per Fid's dimensions.  Bolted one to the underside of the hood from the forward hood emblem cap screw to the existing hole in the left front of the hood, and, voila...super strong hood.  Since the hood prop rod supports the left side of the hood, adding the left brace lifted the sagging right side of hood.

The Factory should have used the hood braces since day one.  Then again, the car should have had a truck lid.  And a glove box compartment.

But, I digress.  This Kaiser Forum has provided extremely valuable information to help me restore my cutie Henry J with the neat-o mini tail fins.  Thank you.

I have provided pictures of the hood supports below.

[Fid]

The hood must be gently closed while guided into position, otherwise the drivers front of the hood overlaps the fender by an inch and removes the fender paint.

The previous owner did exactly that on my '52 HJ Vagabond.  The '51 HJ and '52 HJ Vagabond did not have those braces, and just like Russ, I was lucky enough to find a set in the trunk of my '52 Vagabond when I got it. And as Vagabond Russ points out, they are much needed!  I remember my dad acquired a nice low mileage '51 in the early '70s and the first thing he did was make a set of those braces - he made them out of flat stock but they did the job.  I always had a '53 J (still do) so I never knew how "bad" that hood is without them till I picked up my '52 Vagabond in 2001.   Yes, they are badly needed and I'm sure that not having them is the reason why you see so many driver side hood trim pieces with the ends broken off.

[jasonrocksout]

The hood must be gently closed while guided into position, otherwise the drivers front of the hood overlaps the fender by an inch and removes the fender paint.

The previous owner did exactly that on my '52 HJ Vagabond.  The '51 HJ and '52 HJ Vagabond did not have those braces, and just like Russ, I was lucky enough to find a set in the trunk of my '52 Vagabond when I got it. And as Vagabond Russ points out, they are much needed!  I remember my dad acquired a nice low mileage '51 in the early '70s and the first thing he did was make a set of those braces - he made them out of flat stock but they did the job.  I always had a '53 J (still do) so I never knew how "bad" that hood is without them till I picked up my '52 Vagabond in 2001.   Yes, they are badly needed and I'm sure that not having them is the reason why you see so many driver side hood trim pieces with the ends broken off.

I pointed the missing braces out to my dad, who immediately said "Oh... well that makes sense..." 

His first though was, similar to your dad, making some out of flat stock.  Luckily I have a buddy that works at a fab shop that is happy to just knock out a set once I can get him some good dimensions (as far as at what point does the rod "bend" into the flat piece, what angle is the bend, that sort of thing)

[rjbruins]

Would it be possible for someone to post a photo of the hood supports installed? Thanks

[Fid]

Would it be possible for someone to post a photo of the hood supports installed?