Starting issues

[shawn_and_his_kaiser]

I've been working on my 51 lately, trying to get it running again. Few issues I have are... The motor doesn't spin fast enough to actually start and drains the battery after about 2-3 tries. I changed out the plugs last night. The "older" ones had less than an hour of running time on them, but they were completely fouled out.
I'm not getting any spark, and the point isn't opening. Most of the other electrical parts have been replaced. I'm seriously considering putting in a 6 volt, electronic ignition.
Suggestions?

[r1lark]

If the points aren't opening, that is why you don't have any spark.

Start from scratch on the ignition system - new points and condenser, known good cap and rotor and wires. Adjust the points per the specs in the Shop Manual.

Has anything been done to the starter? Does it need a rebuild? The 6 volt starters will turn noticeably slower if the bushings are worn and the rotor is dragging on the field coils. How are the brushes?

A big issue on six volt cars is battery cable size. The skinny cables meant for 12 volt cars won't cut it on a 6 volt car. Do a search on the forum, there are a number of threads on 6 volt cable size. A good website and source for cables and fittings is www.custombatterycables.com, check them out. Here is what they say about 6 volt battery cable size in their FAQs:
What do you recommend for 6 volt electrical systems?
Six Volt systems take twice as much current to do the same work as 12V systems (Power = Voltage x Current).  The battery cables should be sized to handle that increased current.  I'd use 2/0.  You can't go wrong with that and it does not cost much more than 1/0.  I would not go any smaller than 1/0.

A lot of people move the positive battery cable connection (where it attaches to the engine) down to a starter bolt. Again, if you search on this forum you should find discussion on that.

Personally, I would get it starting/running correctly with the points, and then consider a  electronic module. Don't throw another variable in the mix. Others may disagree, just my opinion.

Keep us informed of your progress.

[joefrazer]

I agree. A properly tuned engine will start easily on 6V, given that the start is in good repair as well. Ensure you have new, good quality parts with properly gapped plugs and points and the engine should run to your satisfaction.

Plug fouling is usually the result of a rich fuel mixture. Occasionally, the air to fuel mixture is off but that can be remedied. A quick way to adjust for better performance...with the engine off, turn both air screws (the two small brass screws in the lower throttle plate) clockwise until you can feel them beginning to seat. Then, turn the screws counterclockwise 1 1/2 turns each. That's a good, middle of the road setting that should allow the engine to run without being too rich. Once the engine is running, you can adjust each screw individually for best idle.

Another source of plug fouling is a stuck choke. Once the engine is running check to make sure the choke plate is fully open. I've had the choke spring wear to the point that it would no longer hold the plate open on acceleration.

[shawn_and_his_kaiser]

Thank you for the reply... The cap, rotor and wires are all new along with the both battery cables. I have taken apart the starter, cleaned it up on the inside and replaced the brushes. The points have not been changed, sadly I don't know the first thing about them or even how to order them. I also replaced the wiring under the distributor cap.

[shawn_and_his_kaiser]

I have noticed that the last few times it was running that the choke wasn't working. Before, it would start right up and idle high until I tapped the gas pedal and it would kick down to a lower idle... That no longer happens.

[joefrazer]

NAPA carries points for the Delco equipped cars. Ask for part number CS777A. They may have to order a set, but are still available.

[54manhattan13]

I noted that you said that you don't know how to replace the points.

If you have access to You tube several videos are available to show you how.

Good luck. Keep asking questions.

[shawn_and_his_kaiser]

Still not starting.. Replaced nearly every electrical part under the hood... Definitely no spark at the plugs(which are new and gapped correctly)

[joefrazer]

Have you replaced the coil? Condenser? Are you getting 6V to the minus side of the coil with the key turned on?

[shawn_and_his_kaiser]

Coil and condenser, yes. I've driven this car a few times, it's got to be something minor. Not positive about getting 6v on the minus side... Need to figure out how to do that.

[Fid]

Have you checked the wire inside the distributor? That wire often frays and then shorts against the metal parts. It also breaks and if it breaks the insulation can remain intact hiding the break.  Check that - it can cause a lot of misery.

Here is a thread that might help:

http://kfclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,11307.msg51367.html#msg51367

[Tevel Jean-Jacques]

I had the same issue with the wire between the points and the entry connector. After it broke several times in a few days, I discovered that the new pointers I installed few miles before had a "semi shortcut" and permanently left my coil under tension, just varying enough to create some kind of spark, but burning the wire and heating the coil. After I replaced the pointers, I also had to add a ground wire between the distributor and the "general ground" of the car. This last one really improved the ignition a lot.....

[shawn_and_his_kaiser]

Really great info... Where did you attach the wire on the distributor for grounding purposes?

[shawn_and_his_kaiser]

I went out to try and start it yet again. But I noticed something interesting... The + cable got warm just after a few spins of the motor. I feel like this is a big clue.... Thoughts?

[joefrazer]

Remove the distributor cap and rotor. Turn the ignition switch on and with a screwdriver open the points. You should see a spark. Be careful not to touch the distributor body or center post when you do this. If there's no spark then you're not getting six volts to the points.

A friend was driving his car when it suddenly quit. The car acted like it had no spark so we tested the distributor and it was fine. I asked him to turn the engine over while I watched the points open and close. Lo and behold, the distributor shaft wasn't turning. The timing chain broke.