Author Topic: Under hood standards  (Read 46841 times)

joefrazer

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Under hood standards
« on: July 02, 2012, 08:32:40 PM »
OK, while at the national, I was asked to review the under hood finish on one of the cars. My specialty is getting things right in the engine compartment so that's why I suppose I was pinged to give my 2 cents worth. I was also asked to put as much to "paper" as I could so here we go.

**DISCLAIMER"" - Although I have restored many an engine compartment, I am NOT THE expert in any way, shape or form. I am certain that I may misstate a fact so if that happens, please send me a message with the correction and I will make it right.

This is an ongoing entry so I reserve the right to get writers cramp and come back tomorrow (grin)...

- All 1947 and 1948 KF engines are grey. The same holds true for 1949 and 1950 engines with a 1bbl carbuetor.
- All 1949 and 1950 engines with a 2bbl carburetor are light (mint) green.
- All 1951 thru 1954 engines (without supercharger (S/C)) are dark green. This includes 1951 Frazers and 1954 Kaiser early and late Specials.
- All Henry J and Darrin engines should be the same dark green as 1951 thru 1954 Kaisers. Valve covers on the 161F engines are black.
- All 1954 and 1955 Kaisers with S/C engines are dark red (maroon). A good match is Duplicolor's Dark Canyon Red.
NOTE - Heads were installed prior to painting so all head bolts will be painted with the exception of the nut that holds the air cleaner bracket in place on applicable cars.
- All cars had the following attached BEFORE engines were painted:
  - Water pump (but NOT the pulley)
  - Generator bracket that attaches to the block
  - Generator bracket that attaches to the water pump
  - Distributor base (226 engines)
  - Harmonic balancer. There is some question as to the 54-5 cars with S/C. I recently purchased a 50K mile car and it's was not painted. It was matte black.
  - Transmission bell housing (All transmissions were also painted engine color)
  - Dip stick
  - Oil fill tube (134L, 161L and 226L) but NOT the oil fill cap
  - Oil pan and drain plug
  - Water neck
  - Intake and exhaust manifold. (I have seen factory photos with them on and off on the paint line - so I'm open to opinions)
  - Accelerator linkage mount plate (piece that's attached to the head using the head bolts) on all 1951 and up full size Kaisers.
  - on 54-55 Cars with the S/C, the supercharger and air box assemblies are painted engine color. The kickdown switch bracket and bolts that it's attached to on the airbox are painted engine color. This is as per the 50K mile car that I mentioned above.

- All fan blades, fan pulleys, generators, air cleaners, air cleaner brackets, oil caps, starters, ignition coils, power steering units (if so equipped), and distributor heads are painted semi gloss black. Caveat -> 1947 and 1948 air cleaner are a flatter black than 1951 and up units. Everyone today sprays all of the above a gloss black and it's accepted in judging.

- Coil mount brackets (the piece that mounts to the head/block) are painted gloss black and the bolts are natural color. The coil band (round part that holds the coil in place) is a natural cad color, as are the nuts/bolts that hold it in place.

- The accelerator linkage on all cars was natural color. This includes the rod running across the head to the carb, linkage to the transmission (standard and automatic) and on the early cars, the linkage and all brackets that mounts to the firewall.

- Oil filters: If Fram equipped, orange body with a black top and nut. Tubes, adapters and elbows are natural color. If Purolator equipped, body and top and nut are black. Tubes, adapters and elbows and drain plug (if equipped) are natural color. The bracket that attaches to the canister, along with it's mate to the engine are black. Nuts/bolts/screws are all natural color.

- On the distributor, again, the adapter that sits on the head (226 engines) is painted engine color. The distributor head is semi gloss black and the adjusting plate (part in between) is a natural color. The nut that holds the adapter to the head on 226 cars is painted engine color. On all cars, the bolt that secures the distributor to the adjusting plate is natural color.

 -The bolts that hold the fan blade to the pulley are natural color.

 -Starter and generator nuts and bolts that secure each to the engine are natural color.

- The temperature sending unit, as well as the oil pressure sending unit, and any brackets, nuts and bolts  securing either (if so equipped), are natural color.

- Oil pans and drain plugs are natural color. Inspection pans on the transmissions are painted black. Attaching bolts are natural color.

- Heater tubes are natural color as are the adapter blocks and tubes used on all cars. This includes the elbow at the rear of the engine on 226 cars. Heaters were dealer installed items so the parts were all natural unpainted in color.

Ok, that's the engine itself, with the next installment, we'll detail the firewall.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 05:23:01 PM by joefrazer »

kaiserfrazerlibrary

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Re: Under hood standards
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2012, 08:50:54 PM »
This could be the start of judging standards available to all members as a restoration/upgrade guide

Gordie

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Re: Under hood standards
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2012, 12:57:29 AM »
 Thanks,  this is great informtion that we all can use!
Member #3151 Since June 1974
Vice President K.F.O.C.I. 2013-2017  President 2018-2019
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Terry T

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Re: Under hood standards
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2012, 05:10:46 AM »
Great list, but if it is not written down on the judging sheets, who can remember these details while standing in the hot sun?

Any standards need to be backed up by photos/information available in KF print, not by someones memory from long ago.
Logic on how the assembly process works makes good sense.

I have a similar list for the Darrin, but it has never been adopted by the judges.

Aeroman

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Re: Under hood standards
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2012, 01:26:16 PM »
Once again, it's time for the judging standards book that we started working on several years ago. Jack Mueller should have all the rough drafts - I sent him Willys Aero stuff. We don't really need to print copies for the membership, just one book for the chief judge.
Rick Kamen
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Willys Aero Survival Count
aeroman@aol.com
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1954 Willys Aero Eagle "Old Toby"
1964 Ford Econoline panel van
Once owned 11 other Willys Aeros and a Willys wagon, 2 Kaisers, 1 Henry J, plus Studebakers, Hudsons, a Nash and others.

darrin145

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Re: Under hood standards
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2012, 02:24:39 PM »
If a "Judging Manual" is assembled, I think it should be available to each and every member who wants one! Most other clubs have guidelines so the car owner knows what is "correct" or not when repairing or restoring. I don't think the "chief judge" wants to be bothered each time someone needs to know the color of a bracket or the proper sheen on an underhood part, etc.!

Gary.

pnw_oldmags

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Re: Under hood standards
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2012, 04:18:10 PM »
I was involved in a failed attempt to develop Restoration Guidelines / Judging Guidelines several years ago.
After several hundred hours of work by myself and others - We resigned ourselves to the fact the Club was not ready to go there yet.
When I submitted a 65 page sample for the Henry J Class in San Diego to the Chief Judge and the President I recieved no comments - good or otherwise.  FYI - Five classes were started.

1.  Trying to do a set of guidelines by KFOCI Class will not work.  Most Classes have numerous Models for numerous years.  When trying to clearly state if the car is this model in this year it should be Delco, versus after this serial# it should be Autolight got very confusing.  Model to Model, Year to Year there are loads of variations within most classes.  I am afraid a document for each Model and each year will be required.  Thank goodness for current technology.  I believe a dynamic document can be created.

2.  Lots of comments on what is your source of the Truth continuously comes up.  No one wants to trust anyone else's word on things without a written K-F Source.  You may have noticed all the parts manuals and Service Bulletins I have been working on bringing online to be that WRITTEN WORD.    Good luck with this issue - Things like paint color on your engine are not documented anywhere - where is that in writing  -  I cannot find it.  At some point we will have to print it, endorse it, restore to that accepted standard and judge against the same accepted standard.

3. There seems to be an endless stream of exceptions.  The K-F Factory caused some of this.  I believe they used up a lot of leftover parts - using up last years parts before changing over to the new part in the new year.  I also believe K-F Dealers made lots of small changes to make a perspective buyer happy - If you put Manhattan Hub Caps on this Deluxe I will buy the car from you.

Bottom line as a Club we need to write the standards the best we can, adopt them as the standard, publish them and then judge against these adopted standards.  If someone can document an exception then it should be reviewed, rejected or adopted and then if adopted it should become part of the Standard going forward.  Never use the word ALWAYS. 
My thoughts for what they are worth - Jim
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 04:22:35 PM by pnw_oldmags »
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G.B. (All Vinyl Dragon)

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Re: Under hood standards
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2012, 04:50:43 PM »
It is always good to have a standard for Restore & Judging...
It is tough if the rules would keep changing. Fun if have a good standard to make improvements.

Early-Late Model Years has always been a problem on any Make.

This is why it is important to get the Judge Sheet to make improvements before the next Judging on each model You have.
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made in Culver City, Calif.

Aeroman

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Re: Under hood standards
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2012, 04:57:01 PM »
Perhaps we should put together a "scrapbook" kind of an album with all the judging standards, including hearsay, for each car. Have the details together and then have an "editing" session to remove anything that cannot be certified.
Rick Kamen
KFOCI LM4314 since 1979
Willys Aero Survival Count
aeroman@aol.com
http://clubs.hemmings.com/willysaero
1954 Willys Aero Eagle "Old Toby"
1964 Ford Econoline panel van
Once owned 11 other Willys Aeros and a Willys wagon, 2 Kaisers, 1 Henry J, plus Studebakers, Hudsons, a Nash and others.

joefrazer

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Re: Under hood standards
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2012, 05:29:17 PM »
Next up, inner fenders and firewall.

**See my disclaimer above.**
- Unless otherwise stated, NONE of what's noted below applies to the Darrins.

- On all KF cars, the front clip (fenders, inner fenders, front valance and sheet metal) was assembled before it was installed on the car. The fenders were painted at the same time as the body and then they were attached to the rest of the front clip.

- All inner fenders are painted a gloss black. This includes inspection pans, radiator cradles and any vent tubes not an integral part of an inner fender. Henry J cars used a heavy paper vent tube and they should be a flat black color. Clamps used to attach any vent tube should be natural (cad) color.

- Any time a screw was used to assemble two parts, it was done after the parts were painted so any screws, nuts, bolts, washers, tabs, speed nuts, etc, will always be natural color.

- On  the firewall, the body and trim tag is painted body color. It was installed before the car was painted.

- If a car with overdrive, the relay, kickdown switch and switch actuator are all natural color, as are all mount nuts bolts and screws. The mount plate for the kickdown switch itself should be black.

- Hood hinges are natural color. On some cars, the springs are black.

- On 1947 thru 50 cars and 51 Frazers, there's a metal cover that covers the wiring harness as it passes thru the firewall. It is painted black and the screws are natural color.. On 1951 thru 55 cars, Kaiser used small two piece rings to secure the harness as it passes thru the firewall. It and the screws used to hold it in place are natural color.

- On cars with turn signals, the flasher unit strap is painted black.

- On 1947-50 cars with a radio, some have an external flat strap mounted to the top of the firewall. It and any attaching bolts are natural color.

- On all cars, including Darrins, wiring terminals, (some cars have more than one 3, 4 or 5 prong terminals), all should be natural color. Darrins used rubber grommets to pass wiring thru the body at the front. They are available thru the manufacturing fund.

- Horns on all cars, including Darrins, are painted black.

- Radiators on all cars, including Darrins, are painted black. This includes the short pipes used on the early cars as part of the lower radiator hose assembly.

- On all cars, including Darrins, radiator and heater hoses should be black.

- On all cars including Darrins, hose clamps are of the nut and bolt contracting style, not the worm and roller style used today.

- On all cars, including Darrins, the radiator cap should be natural color.

- On all cars, if there is a windshield washer bottle, the cap should be natural color (Trico supplied and painted them a silver/grey color). The mount bracket and mount screws should be natural color. A decal was affixed to the bracket front (available from the manufacturing fund).

- At this point is important to mention the brand of components used on the cars. It is as follows:
  - All 1947 thru 1950 Kaisers and Frazers as well as 1951 Frazers used Autolite generators, starters, distributors, vacuum advances, and voltage regulators.
  - Some 1951 Kaisers were the same as above.
  - All 1951 thru 1955 full size Kaisers used Delco Remy generators, starters, distributors, vacuum advances, and voltage regulators.
  - All Kaiser Darrins were the same as 1951 thru 1955 full size Kaisers.
  - On Henry J cars:
    - All 1951 and 1952 Vagabonds used Autolite generators, starters, distributors, vacuum advances, and voltage regulators.
    - All 1952 non-Vagabonds and all 1953 and 1954 used Delco Remy generators, starters, distributors, vacuum advances, and voltage regulators.
  - On all Allstate cars, Sears brand components were substituted for the spark plugs, battery and voltage regulator. Otherwise, follow the Henry J standards.
  - All KF cars used Autolite A5 spark plugs as original equipment. A7 and Champion J8 and J8C are accepted in KF judging.
  - All 1947 thru 1952 KF cars used park plug wires without boots at the plug end. In 1953, a "beehive" style boot was incorporated. Wires and boots in all cases should be black.
  - All KF cars, including the Darrins, used a Group 1 6 volt battery made by Willard. Today, as long as it's Group 1 and black, it is accepted in judging.
  - All Kf cars, including the Darrin, used a black painted battery hold down. All attaching hardware should be natural color. On 1947 thru 1950 cars, and 1951 Frazers, the hold down was a flatter style than the 1951 and up unit. (I am going to post a few pictures of various components to demonstrate what things should look like.)
 - On all KF cars, including the Darrin, the hood latch striker plate should be natural color. The hood pin and safety latch are also natural color, as are all mount nuts and bolts.

- On all KF cars, including the Darrin, the negative battery cable is zero gauge, black plastic or cloth shielded and has an offset head. The positive cable is braided and should be attached to the front engine plate, not the water pump or head. In addition, there's a short jumper strap that runs from the same engine plate mount to the frame.


Attached is a picture of the front end of a 53K to demonstrate what should be painted and what shouldn't.
  -
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 05:25:20 PM by joefrazer »

Dragon

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Re: Under hood standards
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2012, 09:56:49 PM »
From the comments, it sounds like it is only the Chief Judge that is against having standards to go by.  If they where posted on the forum all members would have access to them.
KFOCI since 1968
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kaiserfrazerlibrary

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Re: Under hood standards
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2012, 08:32:38 AM »
Posting on the forum would be a problem because the info might get lost over time.  The plan I had proposed was to put standards out on a CD which would be mailed to all members getting publications on a certain date AND be provided to anyone joining after that point as part of a New Member Packet.

The other problem is that only the person posting can update or revise as necessary over time.  If the person dies or does not want to change information for any reason, incorrect or incomplete information could still remain.  As Jim Betts pointed out (and I know that he is serious about putting standards together...I recommended his format over mine to the Club President, Mike Knittel) his effort was shot down as was mine.  If two people tell the same type of story, you know it's not made up or sour grapes.  You replace the person/people who are the obstruction as Mike tried to do but got shot down himself bya complaints from a small but key group of people in the club.

joefrazer

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Re: Under hood standards
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2012, 09:31:41 AM »
Just to be clear, what I'm authoring here is NOT a set of judging standards, rather, it's documentation around how the car appeared when it left the factory, or when dealer installed items are mentioned, how it left a dealership when delivered to a customer. I wanted to make that distinction because I am neither for or against making "judging standards" available to the general membership.

pnw_oldmags

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Re: Under hood standards
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2012, 09:36:21 AM »
 ::) And I applaud you for it.
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Roadmaster49

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Re: Under hood standards
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2012, 02:38:42 PM »
Bottom line as a Club we need to write the standards the best we can, adopt them as the standard, publish them and then judge against these adopted standards.  If someone can document an exception then it should be reviewed, rejected or adopted and then if adopted it should become part of the Standard going forward.  Never use the word ALWAYS. 
My thoughts for what they are worth - Jim
Jim, 
You are correct.  Do the best you can but there should be a Judging Book with as many consistencies noter per year as possible.  THE OWNER of the vehicle being judged must be able to provide documentation IF a discrepency arises.

I am a judge in the Buick Club of America. I am not a fan of judged shows overall. But, for the purposes of maintaining authentic artifacts for whomever, 10-50 years from now, then - yes - we should have an authenticity judging manual.

The BCA has a Judging Manual and last time I looked, Buicks have been made for over 100 years.  Certainly, KFOCI can come up with a Judging Manual for the breadth of the run of KFOCI and Willys vehicles!

As for an initial printing, I know that the BCA has boxes of these manuals around at each National meet. They are not printed off every year.  Do a run every 4 years and at each National meet have a Judges meeting like the BCA has. These are very informative.

Our editor of the Buick magazine, Pete Phillips, runs a slide show of things to catch and it's an open discussion of whatever wacky question you want to ask. 

I would be happy to fund a run of Judging Manuals in the 50-100 range to be handed out to judges at the next National Meet.  But it doesn't need to be a gazillion pages. 
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