Horn medallion removal--special situation?

[bearman]

I know that Fid responded to me almost 2 years ago about removing the horn medallion on my '53 Henry J.  But the previous owner of my car must have done something weird.  Suspecting a short in the horn cable, I thought I'd check out the whole cable.  Well, the medallion did NOT come off "carefully" or "gently."  When I FINALLY pried it off, the retainer ring ended up being very bent; the three srews inside the medallion had been position through three corresponding holes in the retainer ring.  THe retainer ring iteself is permanently affixed over the metal horn cup, with three flanges wrapping around the cup.  The retainer band is totally shot, and the pad is pretty sad as well.  So, I am totally confused about: 1) how the horn medallion was put on; and 2) how I will EVER get it back on, either the right way or the wrong way.  BTW, the horn worked fairly well, but  recently, it was sounding while I was driving and I wasn't touching it.  I'm thinking that perhaps, the contact plate had slipped; the visible parts of the horn cable look fine.  Any suggestion are more than welcomed!

[Terry T]

something is very strange
the medallion is held on by a very large o-ring that is fitted to the medallion and is an interference fit to the ID of the horn ring
you need to post some pics

[bearman]

Thanks, Terry.  Yes, I have that diagram.  What I failed to mention is that I do not have a horn ring on my car.  Also, there was no semblance of a "very large O-ring" once I got the medallion off.  Elsewhere on this forum, there are two pictures of the horn with the medallion off; mine indeed looks just like that, i.e., the contact plate dead center, secured in place by the spacer over the ground clip.  So I guess what's missing is the O-ring you mention.  The diagram shows a "retainer band" but no mention of an O-ring.  Are they one in the same? Can you give me any dimensions/thickness of the O-ring???

Also, to your/other readers' knowledge, the screw heads (3) inside the medallion, do not poke through the corresponding notches in the spacer?  (There are, of course, three other notches through which the "fins" on the back of the medallion poke into.)  Sorry, not equipped to do photos on line.

[Fid]

The large O-ring was made of rubber and often rotted away so someone likely took other measures to fasten the medallion. It should just pop off with little to no effort.  I've replaced the ring in my cars, 3" OD / 2 7/8" ID O-ring from Ace Hardware works great. Almost an exact replacement. It fits  in the groove on the horn button/medallion and just presses in. With or without horn ring. Visit your hardware store and get one - that should be all you need.

[bearman]

Thanks, Fid.  I can always count on your expertise.  I will get one of those today and hopefully get off the "horn of this dilemma"!  (BTW, I was able to re-bend the plate to flatten it almost as before.)

[bearman]

First of all, I tried 4 hardware stores (including Ace), and no one had the O ring size FID mentioned.  But using a compass, I measured the underside DIAMETER of the plastic horn medallion and it's 2-1/2 inches, so I don't think a 3-inch ring of any kind will work.  So, I'm still stumped and hornless.

[Fid]

Hmmm, I don't remember when I last bought one of those O-rings. It goes in the groove along the back edge of the horn button. It was in the plumbing dept at Ace. Here's what they look like on and off the button -

[Terry T]

as alternative, use 3  small rolls (size of a pea)  of sealant--the type that those of us in the auto industry called "monkey dung"--under the horn cap.

push it in place, let it crush out, scrape off that that squished out.  it it held in place and no one knows that you cheated!!

[ReggieFoote]

I'm a simple man.

Bought a new horn button.  Fit was a wee bit loose.

I put a couple drops of clear silicone sealer around the edge and pressed it in place.

See, being simple has its benefits!!!

Reggie

[Terry T]

another name for the "monkey dung" is rope caulk--typically used around windows in the home

[bearman]

THanks again, all.  Fid, thanks for the photos, but I think we've been talking apples and oranges.  What came off in my hands after much prying and fighting was the ENTIRE medallion assembly, i.e., the big, metal circular piece that has the "K" medallion IN it (which is what is in your photos).  But I still don't see what actually holds this large assembly onto the retainer plate of the steering wheel.  Maybe I'll just have to glue it like the others suggested.

[Terry T]

goto the breakdown pic and describe what you have using the same descriptive names in the diagram...or...post a pic
I think that we are confused on what you have

[bearman]

Per Terry's request, here goes (and I've got Fig. 192 from the service manual in front of me): With considerable effort, I was finally able to pry the "medallion" off the steering wheel, i.e., the "medallion" is the entire assembly, which is the heavy metal circular piece, in which the plastic "K" piece is enclosed.  There are three small screws on the back side of the medallion, positioned (as in a clock) at Noon, 4:00, and 8:00.There was no "retainer band" or even remnants of one visible.  I do not have a "horn ring," so the next piece was the "contact plate" that turns slightly to catch under the three ridges of the "spacer".  The "spacer" is permanently affixed to the "ground clip."  Behind the spacer is the round "pad," which is worn, but not totally shot.  Then of course, there is the nut in the center of the "ground clip" that holds the steering wheel on, and the "horn blowing cable" is in the middle of that nut.  What I DID see between the "contact plate" and the "spacer" were the remnants of a thin gasket-like piece that may have been heavy paper or even leather.  I manufactured a replacement piece to fit around the three ridges of the "spacer"; it's thin enough so that the "contact plate" fits in and turns properly to fit on top of the "spacer".  Bottom line: I am still at a loss as to how to get the medallion back on, short of gluing it.  It WAS on there, but the three screws in the back of the medallion were attached to the three corresponding slots on the "spacer."  HOW, I will never know.  I hope this helps in the diagnosis, guys.

[bearman]

Slight clarification: When I said I don't have a "horn ring," I meant I don't have the semi-circular piece.  My "medallion" and "horn ring" are one piece, so when I pried it off, I meant I pried off the combination "medallion" and "horn ring."  I think that's why I confused Fid.  And his drawings show just the "medallion."  So the task at hand is how to re-attach the COMBINATION "medallion" and "horn ring" piece.

[Fid]

The medallion refers only to the plastic piece, there is no metal in the medallion. I think what is confusing is the parts book only shows the break down for a deluxe model which used a horn ring. The four cylinder models used a bezel instead of a horn ring. The medallion fastens to that bezel the same way it would fasten to the horn ring. Substitute the bezel on the left this picture for number 10 (Horn ring) in the diagram:


The picture, an artist's rendering in the parts manual, makes the medallion look like it's a larger piece than it is. The bezel fastens the same way the ring does. The cup (number 7 in the diagram) goes through the bezel and then the cup/bezel are fasten to the steering column with a nut (number 8 in the diagram). Then the plastic piece presses into that metal bezel using the o-ring as shown here:



and the finished product:



That's how it goes together. If you pryed the metal bezel  off then you likely did some damage as the nut must be removed (number 8 ) to get the bezel off.