Kaiser Frazer pickups

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

The Muntz trucks were KAISERS not FRAZERS

[frankies frazer]

The documents that Gary Madeil (owner of the third Kaiser truck) has on these trucks is very convincing and they state that there were 3 trucks made and all were made different. The first one was a Manhattan Frazer 3 speed, the second one was a Kaiser special 4 speed, and the third truck was a Kaiser  with a Pontiac straight eight with a Hydromatic. The third one is Gary's.

There were about 146,000 Kaiser AND Frazers built in 1947 and they were producing almost 500 cars a day Kaisers and Frazers. The Frazer trucks serial and body numbers are less than 2 days from coming off the line from Gary's Kaiser truck.

I have also talked to the previous owners of both trucks in question and the second owner of the Frazer truck when it was bought out of California and taken to Oregon in 1956. All stating that the trucks are legit.

I also have the original California title and it clearly states it is a 1947 Frazer Pickup.

There are many other things that points toward that there was in deed a Frazer pickup built.

I understand that there will be and is some controversy over these trucks because there is not a lot of information on them.

I am ALL EARS on any information or thoughts anyone has, PROS or CONS.
 
I would like to know the source that states they were only Kaisers trucks built.

Thanks for everyone's comments

[joefrazer]

In my opinion, take the vehicle for what it is. It is someone's creation, whether by Earl Muntz, or someone else, that was completed back when the car was near new and has survived all these years. It is a unique piece of history that should be preserved, whether in its current state or restored, and enjoyed by its current caretaker.

Who cares whether its a KAISER or a FRAZER. Its odd and its great! Thank you for saving this vehicle and we look forward to seeing it at a KFOCI meet someday!!

[frankies frazer]

I agree completely
I am researching and posting all information found wether it right or wrong, in hopes of figuring out the history of these trucks.
I am also planning to take the truck on the road to display and show it in the near future.
Thanks Joefrazer

[Gordie]

So far there is no proof that there were any cars modified by Muntz in 1947 or 1948 but probably twenty made from wrecks and well used cars by dealers, body shops and individuals over the years and some were well done.  Please do not promote your Frazer as a Muntz built truck until you have proof as that incorrect rumor about Muntz built trucks needs to be laid to rest.  All there is at this time are opinions and no proof whatsoever.

[frankies frazer]

I will post the documentation that Gary has, it is very convincing! So there is some documentation about trucks commissioned by Muntz
Stay tuned!!

[frankies frazer]

Also, as I said before, I am not saying that this truck was in fact commissioned by Muntz!
I am just stating what I have been told by you guys and many other knowledgable people and listening to everyone and then we all can come up with are own conclusion. I do know I am coming up with a lot of information and would like to share it with the forum for you guys to eat up. Lol
Anyway thanks for all the response

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Earl Muntz ended his association with Kaiser-Frazer in late 1947 when the New York City and Los Angeles distributor franchises he had (as well as the retail dealerships) were bought back by Kaiser-Frazer.

Here is a copy of the memo Henry J. Kaiser Jr. sent to his brother, Edgar Kaiser, about the Chavis Motors pick-up.  I was able to fix the folder the files were in.  I was mistaken about the date of the document.  It is 1948 not 1946.  The dealership who had it built (not Chavis Motors) had it done in 1946 from a wrecked very early production Kaiser.  The Muntz trucks had a different shaped cab

[frankies frazer]

Thanks for posting the memo!
Muntz Car Company was the name of his car manufacturing company that made the "Muntz Jet" from 1950-1954, BUT it was also his name when he sold Kaiser Frazers, see picture. Muntz actually was working with Kurtis (who he bought car manufacturing co) in the late 40's.
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=350746571076 

[frankies frazer]

I am waiting on a few papers then I will post all the information I have found in the last 6 months of searching!
This should be interesting because some of the information goes against the grain!

[Gordie]

Muntz Car Co. was at 1101 Figueroa St in Los Angeles and in January 1946 announced that he had 31 dealers in four counties in Southern California according to an ad in Auto News magazine.  Jack's memo was from Henry Kaisers son who worked briefly at the Long Beach assembly plant.  Muntz was probably gone from Kaiser Frazer by the time that the San Diego truck conversion was done.  The sale of his K-F distributorships in 1948 no doubt enabled him to go into the television business.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Court documents show that Muntz sold out his K-F activities back to the factory before the end of calendar 1947.  Joe Frazer engineered the sale claiming it was a leftover item missed when Graham-Paige sold its auto interests to Kaiser-Frazer earlier in that year.  Frazer got a check from Muntz for 84,000 dollars & the court papers suggested that the dissident stockholders go after Frazer to recover the money for Kaiser-Frazer Corporation.

[frankies frazer]

Thanks,
Now we are getting some information.
Thank you for the responses.
Very informative!
Everything helps

[frankies frazer]

I posted pics of the truck earlier in this post. Is that the pics you are talking about  jake?

This was taken from Earl Madman Muntz wikipedia

"An example of a matchbook ad for Muntz car lots in the 1950s"    Note: it says car lots 1950s

And in this book http://epostscripts.net/writings/46.4post.pdf (as stated by you guys) it says that Earl bought into KF in 1947 and was out in 1948!
but what I don't get is there is a lot of articles that says Muntz had car lots in the late 40's and early 50's  as it says in the wikipedia statement. I could probably find a half dozen other places that says the same BUT none of this really matters because if Muntz indeed commissioned these trucks, he did it with 1947 KF sedans in 1947.

On a bigger NOTE: in the Wkipedia "Muntz Car Company" at the very bottom in referances it clearly states
"that Earl Madman Muntz commissioned 3 KF promotional pickups from sedans to see if there was an interest for producing!!!"

More to come

I am having all my findings written up so I can just copy and past it on this Post post

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

C'mon now.  One of the cornerstones of the Muntz empire before and after World War II was his dozens of used car lots spread across southern California!  They ran long after he got out of Kaiser-Frazer dealer/distributor operations.  Court records substantiate the fact that Muntz had sold his operations to Kaiser-Frazer Sales Corporation in November 1947 not 1948.  (Pergament v. Frazer under "Muntz Franchise" in Judge Frank Picard's findings of fact as part of his rulings in the civil suit.  Look it up in west law).

Next thing, maybe you'll start talking about Graham-Paige Frazer's built at the Graham plant on Warren Avenue in Detroit.  Richard Langworth himself put that tidbit into KFOCI HANDBOOK Volume 1 which was released to the members in the late 1960's.