Author Topic: Found this today.  (Read 12259 times)

kaiserfrazerlibrary

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Re: Found this today.
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2009, 07:26:28 PM »
I try to stay away from pricing stuff, especially if I cannot crawl around and through it in person.  If the car is in Holland (Europe Holland, not Holland Michigan, etc), I would have even less of an idea because I don't know what American branded vehicles go for over there.  If the car is totally rotted out, it may not be worth much more than scrap, unless you can find people in Europe in need of used parts (we have a number of 1949 Kaisers in similar states of deterior ation over here already).   If the car is to be scrapped, I would like to get the tags.

If you were able to open the hood of the car, you would find a metal tag on the firewall, or back wall of the engine compartment.  On Left-Hand Drive cars, it is located on the upper right area of this wall, and carries a bunch of abbreviations (AG, DR, SCHED, ITEM, etc) in addition to things like MODEL, PAINT and TRIM.  This information helped identify various aspects of the car and what Items should be put on it during production.  It was one of the tools used by final inspection to make sure the car was built to the production order requirements.  It may be on the upper right or upper left corner if the car has right-hand drive because of the steeling column and gas pedal linkage locations. 

If you open the front doors of the car wide, you will also find a small aluminum tag that says KAISER identifies Kaiser-Frazer as the maker and has the car serial number.  Again, on LHD cars, it is found on the body shell, between the upper and lower hinge points, front left door...it may be on the right side if the car has RHD.  I have never seen a RHD K-F product so I don't know which side it would be on. 

Fabian 51K

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Re: Found this today.
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2009, 07:14:46 AM »
Hello,

Nice find, I am living in Germany. I will be in Bastogne Belgium 11-13 December for the 75th anniversary of the Battle of the Bulge memorial march. I can bring some of my material with me if you would like to see them. I own a 47 Kaiser, very similar to the car you have found. Is the car located in Holland, Belgum, or Luxembourg?

Joey-Jan.com

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Re: Found this today.
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2009, 06:14:51 PM »
...hello Fabian, as I said before the car is in Holland, the Netherlands, Die Niederlande, Pays Bas... :)

billjohnii

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Re: Found this today.
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2009, 02:02:13 PM »
VERY INTERESTING.   I NEVER TAKE ANYONE'S WORD ON REGARDING IF IT IS WORTH SAVING.  I'VE SEEN SOME LOST CAUSES ENING UP BEING BEAUTIFUL CARS.   THE MOST INTERESTING PART IS THAT SHE SAID THE CAR WAS HARDLY USED.  CAN YOU GET HER TO LET YOU IN TO GET THE MILEAGE READING ????  THAT WOULD BE A DECIDING DIFFERENCE ON THE CAR  BEING SAVED IN MY OPINION. PARTS FOR THESE CARS ARE RELATIVELY EASY TO FIND.  WHT IF IT TURNS OUT TO BE A 5 0R 10,000 MILE CAR ?????
BILL #4952
1947 KAISER SPECIAL   buckeye maroon - beautiful
1949 FRAZER MANHATTAN needs total resto
1949 FRAZER MANHATTAN crystal green    beautiful
1951 HENRY J                 blue satin        beautiful
1951 FRAZER MANHATTAN 4 DR CONVERTABLE project

Joey-Jan.com

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Re: Found this today.
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2011, 12:25:09 PM »
...coming back in this after some time, the lady who owned the car died some months ago and the car is sold to a man who is interested in old cars, this week there was a big story about the car in the local newspaper (see atached), and soon a Dutch oldtimer magazine will make a big report of this car, today I visited the place where the Kaiser is now and I will show you some photo's I took...



Jim B PEI

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Re: Found this today.
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2011, 12:49:40 PM »
Interesting!  It looks like a 1949 Kaiser or "1950 Kaiser" (ie re-serialized 49 Kaiser in North America, not sure what Rotterdam did) and in North America, Manhattan as a model name was reserved for the Frazer through 1951, which was the last year for Frazers. Kaisers were usually Special (lower trim) or Deluxe (fancier trim), although there were a few very luxurious top end models such as the Kaiser Custom and the 49-50 Virginian, and the 1951 Dragon. For 1952 and after they changed from Deluxe to Manhattan for the upper Kaiser model.

From the newspaper article, it looks like this car was called a Manhattan, or at least, has had a Manhattan name plate on it. Any information on the data plate on the firewall, or on the driver's door?
KF
49 Kaiser Special Glass Green, Saskatchewan new
Studebaker
64 2dr 170-6 auto Astra White Commander Special
63 4dr Wagonaire 259V8 o/d Blue
57 4dr 185-6 auto Glendale Green/Turquoise
57 4dr 185-6 o/d Glendale Green/Turquoise W6 clone
lawn art
57 Stude 259V8 auto. 56 Panhard

Joey-Jan.com

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Re: Found this today.
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2011, 01:41:27 PM »
...from the original papers who are still with the car (will post them, after been scanned by the owner, later also) it's a Kaiser Manhatten from 1949, the lady got this car as a birthday present from her parents, she drove the car till 1962, it has 35.000 km ridden, it's a fourdoors sedan model, think I found the what you call data plate on the firewall (will post a photo of that what I think you mean later), will go back tomorrow to try to find the what you call data plate on the drivers door...


Joey-Jan.com

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Re: Found this today.
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2011, 01:52:47 PM »
...think this is what you mean by the data plate on the firewall, but I'm not sure, it was in the same compartment as the engine, I hope you can read it, I can read something as...

Kaiser Frazer, Fabrieken N.V. Rotterdam, and bellow that many numbers and letters, Body 1?, Priz 155B1?, K491?


Joey-Jan.com

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Re: Found this today.
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2011, 02:18:16 PM »
...some more impressions of the Dutch Kaiser, hope you like these as Kaiser interested...


Joey-Jan.com

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Re: Found this today.
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2011, 02:24:26 PM »
...the only thing missing on this car are the hub-caps all around, the new owner thinks these are the only parts stolen from the car while it was for so long standing in a shed behind the owner farm house...


Joey-Jan.com

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Re: Found this today.
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2011, 04:18:48 PM »

Jim B PEI

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Re: Found this today.
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2011, 04:28:11 PM »
A body  491 1  confirms that in North America at least, this would be a 1949 Kaiser Special. This was the lower end model with fewer options available and less chrome or stainless steel brightwork trim. How it would be marketed in Europe? Maybe it was sold there as a "Manhattan". Locally assembled cars often varied quite a bit from the home market. I know this well from also owning several Studebakers; that the Belgium, Australia, and even the Canadian assembled cars can be quite different from the South Bend Indiana assembled ones. For example, they sold some Studebakers with 6 cylinder engines ONLY outside of the USA, and ALL the USA versions had V8. I have one of those "Canada only" Studebakers.

Here is the link to the Kaiser-Frazer Registry:  http://www.eskimo.com/~hhagen/reg/reg.htm
The tag does indeed show that it was a Rotterdam assembled car. The "Priz" is likely the paint and trim (interior), which is likely a different numbering system from the North American made ones. I have the same model car, and here is how it reads on my data plate

Serial No.       Body No.    PAINT TRIM  DR TR AG  SCH ITEM
K491-027580   21047        215   111A   2   2   1    135 151  

The bodies were made up and stored, then removed when a particular car was built. From this you can see that body was made up some 6500+ before the car was assembled
The paint 215 is Glass Green, and the Trim 111A is Brown Corundel Corderoy. The DR (delivery region) 2 means it was built in the US, but exported  1= US, 2 =exported TR means transmission and is a 3 speed manual but no overdrive.  AG 1 is the standard basic Accessory Group. On my car, I have a heater and a lighter, and no other options, not even turn signals. SCH schedule and ITEM item are the production order as it was built, as in which day and which car on the line that day (I think)

There are letter codes in the serial number or body number which show where it was built if not built in Willow Run, Michigan. "R" for Rotterdam, "H" for Haifa, Israel, "T" for Toronto, Canada, "A" for Long Beach, California,  "B" for Jackson, Michigan and "C" for Portland, Oregon

What is interesting about this car is that it is a 1949, and there are no other 1949-50 Rotterdam built cars in the registry! The first entry I can see is in 1951
KF
49 Kaiser Special Glass Green, Saskatchewan new
Studebaker
64 2dr 170-6 auto Astra White Commander Special
63 4dr Wagonaire 259V8 o/d Blue
57 4dr 185-6 auto Glendale Green/Turquoise
57 4dr 185-6 o/d Glendale Green/Turquoise W6 clone
lawn art
57 Stude 259V8 auto. 56 Panhard

Jim B PEI

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Re: Found this today.
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2011, 04:43:51 PM »
Since I live in Canada, and we have the metric system now, some of my oldtimer cars I have changed to a metric speedometer that originally came in miles. I managed to find a brand new Studebaker metric speedometer in Israel for my 1963 Studebaker wagon, but before now, I have never seem one for a 49-50 Kaiser!  Listen, if the decision is made to junk the car rather than restore it, I for one would pay for that speedometer including the shipping.
KF
49 Kaiser Special Glass Green, Saskatchewan new
Studebaker
64 2dr 170-6 auto Astra White Commander Special
63 4dr Wagonaire 259V8 o/d Blue
57 4dr 185-6 auto Glendale Green/Turquoise
57 4dr 185-6 o/d Glendale Green/Turquoise W6 clone
lawn art
57 Stude 259V8 auto. 56 Panhard

Joey-Jan.com

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Re: Found this today.
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2011, 04:58:16 PM »
...thanks for the information and asking, will bring it on to the new owner, will post the original papers off this car as soon a possible...

kaiserfrazerlibrary

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Re: Found this today.
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2011, 09:12:29 PM »
The car was one of the 1949 model year Kaisers built at the assembly plant dockside at Rotterdam, Holland.  The assembly plant went up in 1948 and the first car--a top of the line Kaiser Deluxe--came off the assembly line in January 1949.  The decal on the speedometer is the KM version of the MPH break-in sticker used on the North American Kaiser and Frazer automobiles.  The "2" under the DR heading on the firewall tag confirms that the car was specifically earmarked for overseas rather than assembly in the USA amd the Rotterdam tag also confirms this.
 
There were somewhere between 1000 and 2000 Kaisers (Special sedan, Traveler sedan and Deluxe sedan) assembled in Holland during the 1949-50 model year period.  To be honest, there are only a handful of actual export K-F cars in Europe outside of what may be in museums.  Most of the older American cars on the roads in Europe are vehicles that were exported from the USA by collectors after 1970, including K-F products.

« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 09:16:28 PM by kaiserfrazerlibrary »