Author Topic: What to do?  (Read 2493 times)

alocke2

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What to do?
« on: September 16, 2020, 09:50:03 AM »
Hello all, I just purchased a 1951 Kaiser Special 2 dr sedan. Looking forward to getting it on the road. I need to get the engine running which I believe will not be to difficult. Has 52,000 miles on it. My question is what are some of the main things to replace or look at before i get it on the road. Plugs, wires, etc. Do you run leaded gas? Can it be switched over to unleaded? Any help or direction would be greatly appreciated.

konrad

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Re: What to do?
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2020, 10:45:18 AM »
Well, looks like you're going to need some glass to begin with...  :)

On gas...unleaded is fine as long as it does not have ethanol added.  It is possible to switch the various systems over to use gas with ethanol, however that is a rather expensive proposition, from new hardened valves to converting any and all rubber in the fuel system to newer, alcohol resistant versions.  I'm sure someone here can give you a complete rundown on all that's involved for that conversion.  There is a website that will pinpoint stations that still have non-ethanol gas throughout the country:  www.pure-gas.org which will identify those stations in your area.  Personally, I would recommend adding an octane booster (available at your local parts supply house) as these engines do operate better at a higher octane level. 

Another option, and one I recommend, is to contact any local regional airport in your area.  They should have 100 octane low-lead AV gas available.  It is more expensive, about twice what you'll pay at the local pump for non-ethanol gas, but it is far closer to what you would have bought in '51 from the local filling station when your choices were 'Regular' and 'Ethyl'...and no I'm not talking about Ethyl Mertz.  Unfortunately, you don't get the 5 guys in bright white racing out to fill your tank, check your oil, fill your tires and wash your windows.  :D

They may require you bring gas cans to obtain it, or if you're lucky, they'll let you drive right up to the fueling pad and fill up, as my local regional port does.

I would definitely consider a complete tune up as being in your future.  There is a club member in New York who makes excellent repro plug wires, and all the rest of the parts are readily (and cheaply) available from NAPA or Ebay.  Do a search on a previous post I made inquiring what was needed for such a tune up...other forum members gave me precise parts numbers for my tune up...but definitely do a compression check as well...there are new intake valves in my future plans as my tune up revealed one cylinder at only about 80 PSI.  It's not critical at this point, but I do want my baby to run with peak efficiency down the line.

My guess is you will need a new battery.  You haven't said how long it's been since this car was on the road, but given the condition in your pic, my guess is that it has been a while...barn find perhaps?  Is it manual or hydramatic auto trans?  Overdrive if manual?  Either way, you may find the seals have dried out over the years and probably leak.  Once you get it on the road and drive it some, those seals may rehydrate to some extent, but I would plan on at least some work on the tranny in the future.

Brakes...definitely check those out...muy bad juju to have bad brakes or a weak system when you do get it on the road.

I'm sure others here will chip in with more suggestions.  I'm a relative novice to these cars myself, having just bought mine back in January.  It was a garage/trailer queen for about 20 years before I got it, and I've had about a grand's worth of work done on her to make her road worthy...or rather, what I consider road worthy...with more to come to get her up to what I consider mechanical snuff for my taste and needs.

All that said, please join the KFOCI...the info you will have access to by joining the club is invaluable.  It's cheap, helps keep the club going, and is worth its weight in gold as far as these interesting beasties are concerned.  There are people here who will go out of their way to help you along on your journey of getting your beastie back on the road...the folks here are salt of the earth helpful and will not steer you wrong.  I've (as a recent convert to KF cars) perhaps asked many of the questions that are likely percolating through your mind as you look to restore your beastie to driving condition...search them out and I'm sure the responses will be as helpful to you as they were to me.

And welcome to owning a small piece of amazing American ingenuity, design and engineering...you won't be sorry.  :)

« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 10:59:59 AM by konrad »
51 Kaiser Deluxe

Fid

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Re: What to do?
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2020, 12:41:59 PM »
Glass all looks good from my seat. Some unusual reflections on it but it intact from what I can see. Looks like a clean restorer example!
It's an early Special with no rub rail trim.  I have one like it that was originally sold to a honeymoon couple in Aug 1950.
Very enjoyable car to drive and show.  We completely rebuilt the engine in 1991 but that was because the original engine had a cracked block and they had a spare engine for it which was of unknown origin so we decided to just tear it down and rebuild it.  Your's may not require a complete rebuild but you'll want to run a compression test and look at that, cylinders 3 and 4 in particular.
Brake line hoses are often shriveled and constricted - replacements are readily available at NAPA.
Make sure the transmission is full of lube.  Being it's a Special, it most likely has the manual 3 speed so it's pretty easy to jack it up and fill the trans with gear lube.  Also check the rearend to be sure it's full of lube.

Other than these things, the standard tune up parts (all of which are readily available) points, plugs, cap, condenser, rotor etc. 

Pretty easy engine to get running really.

Here's a picture of mine.  Mine is unusual in that it shipped with overdrive and radio - two options not often seen on the Special.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2021, 09:54:35 PM by Fid »
1953 Henry J Corsair Deluxe
Edgar Kaiser's custom 1951 Henry J
1951 Kaiser Special
1952 Allstate Deluxe

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alocke2

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Re: What to do?
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2020, 02:35:18 PM »
Thanks for the all info. Mine has a radio and is manual 3 speed with a neck-er knob, as i was told it is called. On the back it says Darrin Styled, I do not know if that makes a difference but found no information in regards to that. The glass is intact, just a reflection issue. Do you have a recommendation on lube? I assume i could use Mobile 1 in it. So the transmission is a gear lube. The car is in great shape, no rust and no dents.

 I have already joined the KFOCI club.  I hope to be able to get some hub caps through there. It came with some vintage Cadillac (40's) hub caps, i guess i will sell in order to buy the ones for my car.

I am not much on body work so a car like this is something i always wanted to find.

konrad

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Re: What to do?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2020, 02:38:19 PM »
Glass all looks good from my seat. Some unusual reflections on it but it intact from what I can see.

So just a reflection?  Could have sworn it was a chunk of glass missing from the rear window...
51 Kaiser Deluxe

konrad

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Re: What to do?
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2020, 02:43:08 PM »
The Darrin Styled emblem refers to Howard 'Dutch' Darrin who did all the body designing for KF cars.  The 51 models were the only ones to sport that badge.
51 Kaiser Deluxe

Gordie

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Re: What to do?
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2020, 03:16:22 PM »
1947 and'48 Kaisers and Frazers also used that emblem.  It looks like you found a very nice Kaiser and it should clean up and look very nice. My '51 spent most of its life in a garage and with 35.000 miles it cleaned up very well also.  They are great driving cars.
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Terry T

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Re: What to do?
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2020, 03:43:48 PM »
I would recommend to eventually upgrade the gasoline components to be ethanol compatible, eg, fuel pump, flex line and carb.  If you don't, and continue to rely on ethanol free gas, you would be limited to where you can travel.  In some states, 100 octane is ethanol free, but not in others.  Additionally these engines are low compression so high octane is really a waste of money.

Ethanol free carb and fuel pump kits are available, or send them off to a rebuilder--not rocket science.  As for the flex line, I have been running an old style one for 11 years and 15,000 miles--no problem so far.  I run regular gas, never with any additives, even when stored for the winter. 

konrad

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Re: What to do?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2020, 04:12:05 PM »
I would recommend to eventually upgrade the gasoline components to be ethanol compatible, eg, fuel pump, flex line and carb.  If you don't, and continue to rely on ethanol free gas, you would be limited to where you can travel.  In some states, 100 octane is ethanol free, but not in others.  Additionally these engines are low compression so high octane is really a waste of money.

Ethanol free carb and fuel pump kits are available, or send them off to a rebuilder--not rocket science.  As for the flex line, I have been running an old style one for 11 years and 15,000 miles--no problem so far.  I run regular gas, never with any additives, even when stored for the winter.

Interesting info Terry, I learn something new here every day.  Everything I've ever read about old cars and ethanol gas suggests new, hardened valves (or at least valve seats) are required for prolonged use without eventual engine damage.

On the octane issue, I initially was using 85 octane non-ethanol gas in Betsy, but since I started using the 100 octane low lead I've found performance to be better...possibly my mileage may vary.  :D
51 Kaiser Deluxe

Fid

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Re: What to do?
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2020, 05:41:10 PM »
Yes, the '47 and early '48 KFs also have the 'Darrin Styled' badge on them. I've also heard the earliest '51s didn't but found no factory documentation to back it up but the person who told me about it is credible so likely true.  My '51 Special also has no horn ring or bright work around the windshields.  Lots of fun to drive.

Regarding hub caps, the style used on the Special are all over ebay at just about anytime.  Otherwise, since you are a member of KFOC, some of the vendors may have NOS or reconditioned ones so checking with them would be a good idea.
1953 Henry J Corsair Deluxe
Edgar Kaiser's custom 1951 Henry J
1951 Kaiser Special
1952 Allstate Deluxe

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Terry T

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Re: What to do?
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2020, 05:45:59 PM »
I would recommend to eventually upgrade the gasoline components to be ethanol compatible, eg, fuel pump, flex line and carb.  If you don't, and continue to rely on ethanol free gas, you would be limited to where you can travel.  In some states, 100 octane is ethanol free, but not in others.  Additionally these engines are low compression so high octane is really a waste of money.

Ethanol free carb and fuel pump kits are available, or send them off to a rebuilder--not rocket science.  As for the flex line, I have been running an old style one for 11 years and 15,000 miles--no problem so far.  I run regular gas, never with any additives, even when stored for the winter.

ethanol gas has nothing to do with valve seat regression..it is lack of lead additives..and it really doesn't come into play unless you are driving a lot at high rpm's under load..for incidental driving, as we typically do, would not expect it to be a problem, definetly not worth the money/time to tear down an engine for just valve seat replacement

Interesting info Terry, I learn something new here every day.  Everything I've ever read about old cars and ethanol gas suggests new, hardened valves (or at least valve seats) are required for prolonged use without eventual engine damage.

On the octane issue, I initially was using 85 octane non-ethanol gas in Betsy, but since I started using the 100 octane low lead I've found performance to be better...possibly my mileage may vary.  :D

konrad

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Re: What to do?
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2020, 06:07:41 PM »
Yes, the '47 and early '48 KFs also have the 'Darrin Styled' badge on them.

Did not know that Fid...thank you!  Info now stored away in my bio-analogue storage system...to likely be lost at some point due to old-timers...gettin' old sucks...and it's not for pussies.  :D
51 Kaiser Deluxe

kaiserfrazerlibrary

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Re: What to do?
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2020, 07:06:54 PM »
Don't forget to make sure you have the following factory service-related books

1.  1951 Kaiser and Frazer Shop Manual
2.  1951 Kaiser Illustrated Parts List, orange & Black cover

Also, you have probably noticed there are 3 metal tags on your car besides the tag on the engine block.  The other three tell things about when the car came off the assembly line, equipment, original paint, interior trim and other details the car was to be equipped with.  If you send me the numbers off the tag I can "translate" it for you.  Email address will be found in the KFOCI MONTHLY BULLETIN. 

I've attached some information from the KFOCI HANDBOOK on your car that you may find interesting.  The next release of the Handbook will be on the new club website.


alocke2

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Re: What to do?
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2020, 09:38:23 AM »
Fid, very nice looking car! How do you know if it has overdrive?

Terry or anyone what should the compression be ideally or range?

Konrad, thanks for the info, i will research your posts for the PN's.

Kaiserfrazerlibrary, Thanks for the documents. I downloaded them. I was told i would get a CD of information from KFOCI but they are currently out. I can order items 1 and 2 in your post from KFOCI then?



Fid

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Re: What to do?
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2020, 10:37:48 AM »
Quote
How do you know if it has overdrive?

There will be a cable/lever marked 'Overdrive' to the left of the steering column, right next to the hood release cable.
See pic - OD cable is circled in red
1953 Henry J Corsair Deluxe
Edgar Kaiser's custom 1951 Henry J
1951 Kaiser Special
1952 Allstate Deluxe

Need your classic car radio repaired? I repair vacuum tube radios