RUDY PHILLIPS CRUSHES KAISERS

[brian.b]

its wild that these cars sell so cheap i live in west virginia so theres not many around here.someone should tell the guys from road kill that could be a cheap episode,,,pick one up make it run and drive it home.

[Gill Chandler]

I need an air cleaner for my dads Darrin ,  kd161001318 .  Any help would be awsome.  Gill Chandler.1.574 256.7182.
Or.... gillcam1190 @ gmail.com  . Chris @ willow run referred me to you. It is the basic 161  engine.

[Roadmaster49]

Surly you can get more by reducing the price and selling cheap than you can at the crusher.  I sell scrap medal from rail cars monthly and get better pricing than the general public does and the most I have ever sold prepared scrap medal was 15 cent a pound or there abouts.

I don't understand why you would scrap perfectly good cars. Even if you sold it for a thousand dollars it would be more than the scrap guy wou give you with a whole less effort.

I hate to hear of him destroying them but on the bright side he does not own every Kaiser.  I own one he will not crush rare or not.

In the economic climate of supply and demand, there is just too much supply and there has been a sea change in interests that is generational.

I was an auto mechanic from 1998 to 2005.  Cars are complicated today so fewer "modern" cars will be collected and those that are will be more bulletproof or they will get crushed.   That's the "gap" in the generations. 

There are just too many parts and they are heavy and take up room.  I met Rudy and I would say he is my age (50-55).  I know I have to start thinking about limitations re: time, money, resources. 

If I buy just ONE KF to restore or own - then I have to dod it with a clear head. That is, the money, time must mean I enjoy that time and expenditure for the eventual car to enjoy 5 years from now.  I would be 57 years old.

Now take that example and apply it to the possible "youth" generation, approximately age 25 to 42 or so.   You need a garage, tools, evening time and money.  OR try different less expensive hobbies, like fishing, biking, owning a motorcycle, gardening etc. 

Rudy has done so much good for the hobby, he is not alone in crushing.  A well known yard in Montana called Freemans decided to crush his entire inventory in 2014 because it was time to retire.  This created a lot of hand wringing amongst hobbyists that "rare" cars and parts were going away. 

I suggested an opposite opinion.  The cars had been in the yard for years and years, parted to the "market's extent". If demand had essentially ceased, then the remains needed to be crushed and repurposed, at the owners discretion not well intended hobbyists.

That opinion wasn't well received. 

During KF's 1st 4 years they made 'millions' of cars, many essentially identical.  Unlike creating models that are more rare, such as convertibles or specialty sports cars as KF did from 1949 on, the making of "sameness" meant plenty of parts in the future.  Therefore, crushing a slab sider should not be seen as blasphemy. 

The club's membership is declining, which is a microcosm of the market for parts and cars. If the membership has declined by, say 20% in the last 6 years, then parts demand has decreased by 20% as well. 

Now consider that Rudy and other KF parts guys have built their inventories back when the glory days were in place, and you can see the economic principles of supply and demand at work. 

So no big deal to crush some slab siders or plentiful 50's KF's. 

[boatingbill]

Sad, but true. I was at a car show yesterday and it seems the vast majority of interest is now
on the "muscle" cars of the sixty's. I would say the owners are in their 50"s. Everybody knows
what a Pontiac GTO is, but they are not familiar with our KF products. Generating interest in
our wonderful cars is getting more difficult. I have four adult sons and none are interested in
my '51 Kaiser. Mustang yes, Kaiser no. Sad

[joefrazer]

Generally speaking, one tends to collect what you drove as a teenager. For me, most of the heaps I piloted around the streets were built in the late 60s and early 70s. Some of my best buys were cars such as a Hemi Roadrunner...purchased for all of $895 from the local Chevy dealer in 1976 and a 1973 Mazda RX2 that would consistently outrun the Roadrunner in the quarter mile.

My father had two Kaisers during those years, both bought because he never had two nickels to rub together and Kaisers were cheap cars in the early to mid 60s. His fondness for the cars - because they were different - rubbed off on me so that's why I now have four KFs in my stable. But, I still like the stuff I drove while in high school and while I realize another cheap Roadrunner isn't in my future, if something closer to the 1977 Pontiac Grand LeMans I once owned crossed my path, I might just be tempted...

[Roadmaster49]

It is interesting to find out why KFOCI members and forum folks are interested in ownership of KF's.  Your story was interesting.

My dad had Fords and Chevy's and had no inclination toward cars as a hobby. I grew up a car nut for whatever reason and my downfall is that I am a generalist interested in so many different makes and time periods. It's a sickness. 

[boatingbill]

My dad believed in the independent car companies to avoid a monopoly. There really wasn't any
foreign cars  to speak of in the early fifties. My uncle drove Hudsons and my dad drove Frazers
and then Kaisers from 1950 to 1971 and drove Ramblers after that. The Big Three as GM, Ford
and Chrysler were called really did own the market. Used independent cars went for little or
nothing when you tried ti trade them in on a Big Three model. Maybe that was how they could
could destroy the independents. Big three price wars did more damage to the independents as
they had higher costs and could not compete. My first car was a running "51 Kaiser Deluxe with
OD and everything worked. I paid $60 and all it needed was a muffler and a tailpipe.

[Roadmaster49]

If only we knew then what we know now.  I graduated in 1982 and remember combing the used car lots for cars from my youth in the 70's that I wanted to collect, and at bargain prices.

Imagine it's 1963 and you spot old KF's in the back row of used car lots, like 53 Dragons, maybe a Virginian or nice old Travelers or Vagabonds. 54 Manhattans with 50,000 miles on them for $200 or so. wimper.

[boatingbill]

I bought a running 54 Kaiser Darrin with a spare NOS tinted windshield for $1100 and due to
storage problems sold it and a 51 Frazer 4 door hardtop a few years later. Ouch. Hindsight is
indeed 20/20. Oh, and my Allstate was sold at that time too. My friend found a '55 Willys
Bermuda two door hardtop in a junk yard (they weren't called salvage yards then) missing the
engine, trans and a tail light. Other than that it was perfect. We put it back together, but then
he needed money to put down on a three acre lot to build a house on and sold it. This was in
the early 70's and yards were crushing 50's cars. We paid $35 for the Burmuda and could have
had a pick of other KFW products. I regret that because he wanted to sell me the Willys and I
had no room.

[Roadmaster49]

I bought a running 54 Kaiser Darrin with a spare NOS tinted windshield for $1100 and due to
storage problems sold it and a 51 Frazer 4 door hardtop a few years later. Ouch. Hindsight is
indeed 20/20. Oh, and my Allstate was sold at that time too. My friend found a '55 Willys
Bermuda two door hardtop in a junk yard (they weren't called salvage yards then) missing the
engine, trans and a tail light. Other than that it was perfect. We put it back together, but then
he needed money to put down on a three acre lot to build a house on and sold it. This was in
the early 70's and yards were crushing 50's cars. We paid $35 for the Burmuda and could have
had a pick of other KFW products. I regret that because he wanted to sell me the Willys and I
had no room.

oh you're killin' me!  We all have those stories.   It would have been great to be a part of that generation that could get cars cheaply, maybe buy 5-10 and pick off one every 2 years to restore.  Keep them maintained and enjoy. 

[Hollenway]

I got started with the K/F line in the late 40's....   My Uncle was a dealer - so for me -  a lot of my knowledge of the cars was first hand. 
And even though I've bought other collector cars - the K/F brand has always remained my primary old car interest.  Here's a picture of the dealership around 1962.   If you look closely you'll see an unsold new car still sitting in the showroom.   I think this happened to a lot of
the rural dealers.....   When Kaiser quit in 1955 people shied away from our favorite cars much like they did the Edsel's in the early 60's. 

[Roadmaster49]

I got started with the K/F line in the late 40's....   My Uncle was a dealer - so for me -  a lot of my knowledge of the cars was first hand. 
And even though I've bought other collector cars - the K/F brand has always remained my primary old car interest.  Here's a picture of the dealership around 1962.   If you look closely you'll see an unsold new car still sitting in the showroom.   I think this happened to a lot of
the rural dealers.....   When Kaiser quit in 1955 people shied away from our favorite cars much like they did the Edsel's in the early 60's.

Hollenway

I think you probably have a lot to share. Hopefully if you have a story or two it can get in a Quarterly.

So that would be a 1954 Kaiser in the showroom or a different make?  Are you saying that the new Kaiser sat in the showroom for 6 years?

[Hollenway]

Actually the car in the showroom was a 1951 plain jane two door sedan.   The car was used as a demo for
a while by my Uncle's nephew and never was titled.   They ran it on MV plates for it's entire life to my knowledge.  Over the years it was rode hard and put away wet !!!  In 1954 Kaiser decided to give the dealers
a real break on pricing and when the opportunity presented itself Uncle Clair bought six new Manhattans.
But the cars didn't sell well and four of them ended up as cars they used in his coal stripping business.  In fact several of them they removed the seats from and installed a cut down school bus seat for the driver and used them for mechanics and grease buggies in the strip mine.  At least that way my Uncle got a write-off and
some use out of the money he had invested in them.   I know it sounds harsh today - but at that time a
lot of the dealers were pretty disgusted with Kaiser - and I'm sure there are many more stories just like this one.
In the 70's they removed a large fuel tank behind the garage ( pre EPA rules..... ) and to backfill the hole
they pushed a 1949 Onyx over Lambswool Frazer Manhattan into the hole.   I remember when they did
this -   Uncle Clair had passed away by that time and his son was in charge of the family business.   Sad end to a really nice old car !!!!   

The last car from the dealership that wasn't literally destroyed was the Signal Green over Jade Tint 54 Manhattan that I now have.    It took me 30 years to track the car down and buy it back.......  but it's in the garage safe and sound and will be until they put me in the same place as that poor 49 Frazer !!!!!

I have many recollections of going out to Pittsburgh Kaiser Frazer on Penn Avenue to pick up the new cars
as well as many stories about the issues with the cars themselves.   We had some loyal customers who still bought the cars even though they knew the end was near.   When the final hammer fell though.... you seriously couldn't give the cars away.   

Still - it was a wonderful experience  - and I'm glad I got to live through those times - as well as having a wonderful mentor and friend in my Uncle.   He was the one who got the gasoline and oil flowing through my veins and my life is much richer because of the years we spent together.     

[dbalfisto]

Reading this thread with a bit of ennui.  I purchased a 54 Manhattan last winter for the sheer uniqueness of it.  And in driving it around it has garnered quite a bit of attention, comment and thumbs up.  One of the younger engineers in my firm thought it the coolest thing he had ever seen, and he has seen my Alfa's and E type Jag.  It is just that unique in appearance, period!  It is not a show stopper but clean and decent from 20'.  And I now have everything functioning (rebuilt horn ring and finished installation of electric fuel pump today) with exception of the period aftermarket A/C.  A sagging market is a mixed bag.  I may have overpaid for mine but I bought it to enjoy not as a speculative investment.  Read just last night of a 1939 Alfa 6C 2500 sport bought for $300 in 1970 and it sold at auction for 2.1M.  I bought a Model t in 1968 for $400 hard grass cutting money.  The Alfa was the better speculation. But my T was not owned by Mussolini and I did not spend $750k on the restoration.  In fact just finished restoring that T last year after 46 years apart, and my grandkids love riding in it.  And the custom or resto-mod craze has its benefits too.  Popularity and the Internet made restoration of my 1933 Plymouth a lot easier a few years back.  It was my Greatgranddads car new. 

Brings be to a question on my Kaiser's history.  In looking at the Hub garage pictures of Darin 502, I think I see my car at Rudy's, just depends on time of picture. The first picture is at Rudy's, the other of my car now in TN.  I note the green painted wire wheels with Mopar hubcaps, the yellow KF Foglights, and most telling (I believe) the same yellow (1979 Missouri) inspection sticker in the lower left of the windshield.  The owner from whom I purchased the car had replaced the dry rotted tires with the current thin whites.  I have some Coker's to go on it soon. Anybody out there able to weigh in on this speculation?  Enjoyed my Labor Day playing w/ the Kaiser.

[joefrazer]

Sure looks like the same car to me. Both pictures show a car with a tinted/shaded windshield, something not common on the 54s.