Car Value vs. engine swap

[IowaTom]

Guys - The 54 Manhattan made it to my place without incident and I've been weighing the costs involved in tearing down the engine (and maybe the manual tranny) versus transplanting a 350 SBC I rebuilt a few years back, with a T-5.  However, I hate the thought of such a radical modification for this car.  Guess I've been spooked after reading others troubles with cracks in blocks and manifolds.

I'm leaning toward pulling the power train and before carting things off to a machine shop for a hot-tank and magniflux, examine stuff to determine whether it's worth the expense.  I really don't want to turn my car into a "hot rod" but I have to consider expenses... what I have already vs. the cost of machining, parts and time.  I'm perfectly happy with an L head 6 that works.

[joefrazer]

Here's what I would do. If the engine is not stuck and turns over, check compression and if it's good (100 lbs or so per cylinder), replace the fluids and whatever else is needed (plugs, points, cap, etc) and see if it will start.

If the engine has issues, then investigate.

The stick O/D setup is rare in the 54/55 cars. I would first try to get the car to run and drive under its own power before considering a swap.

That said, I've gone thru four...yes four...engines in my 54 (hydramatic equipped) and I am going to go the route of a SBC/700R4 transmission swap.

[IowaTom]

Four engines?  Have you driven it hundreds of thousands of miles?  I hope so, rather than to hear the engines aren't very stout.
I remember seeing a video that made the observation the cars were woefully underpowered from the factory.  The saintly previous owner included a supercharger and the correct Carter carb for it.  He encouraged me to use it, when I got the car running.

Are motor mounts available for an SBC?  I will put a wrench on the crank bolt and see if I can turn things with the plugs out.

[joefrazer]

Setting an SBC into a KF frame is not difficult. One of our members wrote about how to fabricate a motor mount plate using existing KF rubber mounts. I'll look for it and reproduce it here.

And yes, my 54 has some miles on it. Something like 314K.

[boatingbill]

IowaTom: My Father started driving KF products in 1950 and I would say that at the time their speed for highway( no
interstates back then) and acceleration was fine. Your engine is now over 60 years old so they can be problematic for
long distance travel. I just drove mine 65 miles on the freeway and now have a oil leak. Some gasket has failed so I
have a new problem. Part of the charm of an old car.

[IowaTom]

Is a shop manual for my car a difficult thing to find?
I will be disassembling virtually everything and would like to have "the book" as I go.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.  I'm a real novice with Kaisers.  :-)

[boatingbill]

Put a free ad in the KFOCI Club Bulletin and request the Shop Manual. There are readily available reprints.

[pnw_oldmags]

Four of the K-F-W Shop Manuals are online for your use.
http://circlekf.com/index_dept.php?sid=4627&yr=all&mk=all&dp=service&cls=all&pub=KF&typ=SM&mg=all&modID=none&srcID=1115&action=list_sources

Parts Manuals are available also.

[Gordie]

Our Federal Government is making our old cars less and less reliable over the years by changing the requirements for gasoline's, motor oils, brake fluids, tires, paints and who knows what else.  I wouldn't hesitate to jump into my new Toyota Prius today and go anywhere that I wanted to go.  Twenty years ago I would have done the same thing with my old cars but no more!  I am getting too old to be lying under my car in the hot desert trying to blow out my gas line or changing a tire.  I now use my old cars for local transport and realize that I don't need a fleet of them any more and am thinking about getting down to just a couple of favorites.  All of my cars are stock but I am in the process of restoring my modified '51 Kaiser convertible and am seriously thinking about a modern drive train to make my car absolutely dependable.  It is too bad but in another twenty years all old cars may have to be modified or spend the rest of their lives in museums as they won't be drivable with newer fuel requirements.  Today just letting your old car sit with gasoline in the system for a couple of years can cause thousands of dollars in damage to the car.

[DTort96646]

I can agree to a certain degree, but suspension, brakes, fuel management and ignition systems from the 50's and 60's in reality are just not capable for today's driving. Dependability just was not there in the 50's and 60's. I get chastised from some old timers when they see my Darrin with a 70's engine and 80's suspension and brakes. Guess what, I'll be damned, but I am going to drive and enjoy my Darrin, and drive anywhere safely as fast as sensible, or not, as I want to. If any club member has the means to swap an engine, transmission, whatever,  go ahead and do it, but my advice is to do the complete package including brakes and suspension improvements for safety. Here's a pic of my package for my Darrin that I did in my garage. Notice that it has a Jeep engine and transmission with an aluminum Dana 44 rear differential. As far as value is concerned I really don't care because my Darrin is not for sale. You'll have to talk to my widow about buying it. I drove my Darrin for a few years all stock and could not stand it. That's the main reason for the upgrades. Just my opinion. Don't forget to add the cost of changing everything from stock. You will have to decide if you want the style with less dependability or style with all the fun and dependability you can handle. My wife and I are driving our Darrin from MA to PA to attend the National in Gettysburg. See you there. Just a final note, Checker Cabs used the Continental 226 that is in our KF cars. Checker earned the nickname "Iron Bastard' for good reason. They were indestructible taxi cabs. In the later years they used Chevy engines and were sold to the general public.

[IowaTom]

After weighing options and giving this some serious thought, after pulling the engine and T-96 yesterday, my inclination is to replace the drive train with that 350 and T-5.  Like DTort, I'm not planning to sell the car, but drive and enjoy it until the state takes my license.  The old 226 I pulled is indeed stuck, from the water pump to the crank and I plan to give it to anyone who will make their own arrangements to have a shipper come and take it.  The T-96 OD too.
After much cleaning and painting, I'll be interested to hear what to use or fabricate for motor mounts and if disc conversion is possible to the front.  I know Eric Gordon did this (http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/EricGordonsKaiser/) and I've done it with several Stude's using adapter plates made by my Indiana pal, Jim Turner.  I will update the front springs to HD coils and either re-arch or replace the rear leaves and add a more stout rear axle.
I have had to crawl under "tired iron" more than once in my Sunday best to untangle shift shafts or wait out vapor lock on the side of the road and frankly Scarlet, at 62, I'm not looking forward to doing that again.
I really appreciate the advice and candid opinions!  This car was too cool to be sitting in a barn and I want to use it, daily!

[DTort96646]

Do it up nicely and enjoy your drives. All that style in your 1954 Manhattan should be trouble and carefree. Good luck.

[IowaTom]

I have a lot to do here!  (The OD relay goes with the tranny, BTW)

[hj-etx]

You know, you didn't mention whether your Manhattan still had the SC set up. Many don't because they could be more trouble that 2nd and 3rd owners wanted to pay to fix.
You can swap a SB Chevy into a 51-55 Kaiser without cutting. Our Club President has scanned in the account on a different forum thread.
I will point out that using a standard transmission may require searching swap meets for a particular bell housing. An automatic actually might be better for general driving. A straight TH350 or a 200R4 may be to your liking.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

I've read through the comments made by people about putting in newer engines.  According to the GM information I could access while at Tonawanda (GM Engine Plant by Buffalo NY) the next generation (expected) of gasolines would NOT work in any vehicles that were either 1)Non Flex-Fuel and 2)older than 2008-2009.  The intent was to force drivers into higher MPG vehicles by making a fuel only compatible with late model cars.  The opinion was that good Americans either could not (afford) or would not (just didn't want to) go into smaller cars.  So unless you put in a recent vintage engine, you'll end up having the same problems with gasoline in about another decade or so as you do with K-F engines now.

It's too bad that the technical people in various car clubs won't get together in this age of electronic conferencing and emails to look at the problems between older engines and gas/lubricants and work out ways to solve them;  the hobby itself could set up a "certification" program to come up with a list of motor oils, fuel additives, materials for things like hoses and seals, etc that would be old car friendly.  Collectively, we are talking about millions of older cars that would benefit.