Front Wheel Cylinder on 1953 Kaiser Manhatten

[Lee Crump]

I am rebuilding the front brakes and I find that there are 2 bore sizes on the same cylinder.  1 1/8" to the front and 1" to the rear.  Does this make sense?

[joefrazer]

Both Kaiser and Frazer used the stepped design wheel cylinders on all of the full size cars, as well as the Darrin. The rear cylinders were a more conventional one inch bore. As pointed out in another post, new cylinders are available, and kits to rebuild existing units can be had as well.

[Quadromaniac]

I just rebuilt the wheel cylinders on my 54 Kaiser using kits from Rock Auto and they work fine. Only cost $15.80 shipped to my address and yes they are step bored.

[Terry T]

What are the casting numbers for both the front and rear cylinders?

[Terry T]

nice pic but that doesn't help me

[Terry T]

ok
keep going
now we have a casting number
you have almost answered my question...
front or rear?

[Terry T]

Again Jake, you have not answered the question asked, so why are you driven to respond with a senseless answer?

And that question was rhetorical!!  I.E., don't answer.

[leorob51]

It's about time I help out, rather than sucking information from other K-F people.  I have many old aftermarket parts catalogs, going back into the 1940s. By no means do I have a complete library, but it's quite extensive.
Anyway here is the information about the wheel cylinder part numbers, both OEM and Wagner brand. The Wagner info comes from a 1957 edition. It seems that the wheel cylinders with a Hydra-matic transmission are different, so I have only listed the cylinders with a manual transmission. This info covers 1947-1955. The Wagner (and other brands?) casting numbers cannot always be relied upon, because as I looked up the Wagner part number, matching it to a casting number, I found anywhere from 1 to 3 other part numbers, which fall under the same casting number. 1. LF - OEM=200198; Wagner=FD 8523; cast. #FD4508     2. RF - OEM=200197; Wagner=FD8524; cast. # FD4509   3. REAR - (both sides are the same) OEM=200199; Wagner=FD8504; cast. #FD8377.                    By the way, are the interchange guides, with a blue cover, sold on ebay, of any value in finding out which other cars use K-F parts?

[Terry T]

FINALLY

THANKS

[MarkH]

  By the way, are the interchange guides, with a blue cover, sold on ebay, of any value in finding out which other cars use K-F parts?

I bought one of those reproduction Hollander parts interchange books (not cheap) hoping for some Willys Aero interchange info, pretty much none. I'm traveling now but will check when I get home if any Kaiser interchanges are listed and post what I see.

[leorob51]

I should have clarified that I am checking out the much thinner interchange guides NOT the Hollander version. The guides I'm wondering about have many small parts listed such as ignition and wiper switches, etc., that Hollander does not usually deal with. Hydro-electric is the vendor that I've been looking at on ebay.

[MarkH]

I should have clarified that I am checking out the much thinner interchange guides NOT the Hollander version. The guides I'm wondering about have many small parts listed such as ignition and wiper switches, etc., that Hollander does not usually deal with. Hydro-electric is the vendor that I've been looking at on ebay.

Yes, much different parts. Thanks for the clarification.

[rialto]

The Hollander book shows Kaiser brakes etc.  They show the wheel cylinders as 47-55 K,F and Darrin, but not interchanging with any other makes. Some of the venders were selling cylinders from a Willys or something but you had to drill holes. Some fronts didn't have the stepbore. Hollander also shows the 51-55 Kaiser  master cyl interchanges with 49-51 Ford car. Some books also show interchange with early 60's  Econoline master cyl. Hubs and drums don't show any valid interchanges with other makes.There were some odd drum swaps that involved changing hubs etc.

[HJ-ETEX]

A little story about casting numbers... The casting numbers are cast in! When the raw castings are machined, they could end up with different bore dimensions, different mounting holes, and different hose sizes.
I can't find my Lockheed-Wagner Brake Library catalog right now to verify the casting number, but it seems to me 39-48 Ford passenger car wheel cylinders have the same casting numbers as 47-55 KF-cars. The Ford cylinder is 1 1/8 x 1 just like a KF and the mounting holes are the same. The difference is the pipe threads on the Ford cylinder are larger than the KF. You can buy a flexible hose with a different fitting on the cylinder end or you can buy a brass fitting to reconcile the different size. 
Hi-performance heads from the 60s are another example of misleading casting numbers. There are several examples where true hi-per heads were machined at the factory from regular castings.

I have 3 period Hollander Manuals and I can't say they are as helpful as expected. Replacement part catalogs, especially the L-W Brake Library catalog have been more useful to me.

[HJ-ETEX]

rialto, the 51-55 Kaiser master cylinder is indeed the same as the 49-53 Ford. Yes, the catalogs indicate it the same MC was used on Ford Vans, but (I owned an Econoline) I think it was actually a step van or what Chevy calls a P Van (for peanut?). The design of the MC pretty much says it has to used in a vehicle with floor pedals.  That is, under the floor boards.