Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Terry T on October 01, 2020, 06:12:59 AM
-
AND GO....
-
It seems the current slate of officers within the KFOCI have decided to restrict use of this forum to only those who hold at least an associate's membership within the club. A great many of those who stop by this forum do so only once or twice in a great while, and only to learn more about the cars and the people. Restricting access will ultimately force non-members to either join the club - if they haven't by now, they probably won't - or go to other venues like social media where several groups exist to aid those interested and at no cost to them.
It's too bad because many clubs are having trouble gaining and keeping members and it's no secret that the KFOCI is no exception. Removing one of the few avenues to attract them will do nothing to help bolster membership.
As a former officer of the club I am saddened to see this day come. I sincerely hope those making decisions today seriously rethink their latest.
-
Other sites, gun & auto, have forums that are readable & searchable but you can't post questions, photos, or view photos unless you're a registered member. Some registrations are free, some have a small membership fee. Some are free registrations for posting questions & photos, some are paying members only post & view photos.
Maybe some middle ground can be agreed on rather than making the site go dark to the world outside of the 1118 paying club members?
-
I am afraid that these messages will not be seen by most of our club officers as they do not read our forum. When President Mike Neubecker announced that he was going to start a club forum on Facebook I asked him why as we already have a great forum that has evolved over twenty years to have every facet of club interests covered?, Members like fid, joe frazer, historian@kfclub.com and others bend over backwards to research and answer questions for our members no matter what kind of K-F-W product question they have. I never got an answer from Mike but the site is more of a social get together than for K-F-W members with questions. Our club pays a lot of money every month to have all of our online needs handled and our Webmaster Chris Luecht has been working long and hard to develop a new program just for us and hopefully it will eliminate the high costs now necessary to run our club. Certainly it will not cost the club anything to let car owners into our forum to see what we are all about and get a great idea of how fine our club and organization really is. I hope that we don't shut that door!
-
I have to agree with Joefrazer and Gordi . Blocking people out surly wouldn't help membership numbers . Only hurt . I know some new members came from the forum . I don't post much but have been checking the forum twice a day for years . I think it would hurt , not help .
-
Well, being a relative newbie here, perhaps I have no right to chime in, but being a bit of a gadfly...I'm gonna do it anyway. :)
From my perspective, once I purchased a KF vehicle it was obvious to me that if I wanted the most immersive experience, then joining the club was the only choice. I do understand there are others who do not see things that way. However, as someone who has moderated a forum or three in my past I can tell you that limiting access to a forum does not raise its paying or contributing membership...if anything it drives said potential revenue down.
After all, how would a potential new member know if joining the club for access to the forum would be beneficial to them if they can't test drive the forum (to use an analogy we can all grasp)? There will always be people who join a forum just for access to the info and ability to get their questions answered...getting something for nothing is not an unknown human trait. But to close the forum to anyone not a club member just assures anyone on the fence will likely just climb back down on their side. To some it would appear churlish and money grubbing...to others it would simply be a matter of having no idea if joining would have real value to them.
I think some excellent points have been made for keeping the forum open, or at least having it open as read only unless a member.
But I think the best reason for keeping the forum open is the many fine folk here who will go out of their way to help. I'm sure a few of you are sick to death of the many questions I've asked since my arrival...some may even wish that I'd just go away...not mad, just away. But it's all of you who assure I will be a member of both the club and the forum, at least until such time as I am room temperature. :D
Personally, I couldn't see being here without being a contributing member. The number of people still interested in older cars like this dwindles by the day...younger generations, at least many of them, could care less about these older beasties, so I think it's incumbent on those of us who do still appreciate the history, grace and styling of these vehicles to do our part to keep the wheels rolling down the road, so to speak.
To conclude, I can only offer a simple adage which is and always will be true: You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
-
I am afraid that these messages will not be seen by most of our club officers as they do not read our forum.
I've seen similar comments in past discussions about the direction of the club & forum.
I'm puzzled why someone would volunteer to be an officer in any club, yet stay disengaged from it's internet presence, and then close it to the public unless they pay...........first.
Well, being a relative newbie here, perhaps I have no right to chime in, but being a bit of a gadfly...I'm gonna do it anyway. :)................................... However, as someone who has moderated a forum or three in my past I can tell you that limiting access to a forum does not raise its paying or contributing membership...if anything it drives said potential revenue down................................After all, how would a potential new member know if joining the club for access to the forum would be beneficial to them if they can't test drive the forum (to use an analogy we can all grasp)? ...................... But to close the forum to anyone not a club member just assures anyone on the fence will likely just climb back down on their side. To some it would appear churlish and money grubbing...to others it would simply be a matter of having no idea if joining would have real value to them.
I think some excellent points have been made for keeping the forum open, or at least having it open as read only unless a member.
But I think the best reason for keeping the forum open is the many fine folk here who will go out of their way to help.
The number of people still interested in older cars like this dwindles by the day...younger generations, at least many of them, could care less about these older beasties, so I think it's incumbent on those of us who do still appreciate the history, grace and styling of these vehicles to do our part to keep the wheels rolling down the road, so to speak.
To conclude, I can only offer a simple adage which is and always will be true: You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
All good points
-
It's not really fair to club officers to paint with such a broad brush about reading/being active on the forum. Not everyone has time to be active on a computer regularly. Some officers are still working or busy with other projects. Jack and Barbara are great with the forum, as are Gordie (past president), joefrazer (Jim Lape-past president), Mike McManama (membership secretary), and other past officers. ( I do think the 'read for free' and active membership for posting is worth a try.)
-
I have been a member 2 times and have enjoyed the exchange of ideas and information. Presently I do not hold membership because of severe financial conditions.
If you want to ruin the club start trimming participation by non members like me.
I'll be back as soon as I have the fee.
-
I am reminded of the old saying: "to cut off your nose to spite your face". That is exactly what will happen if this ban goes into effect. All of these comments should be sent to Barbara to be included in the KFOCI newsletter, print deadline is the 15th of the month.
-
It's not really fair to club officers to paint with such a broad brush about reading/being active on the forum. Not everyone has time to be active on a computer regularly. Some officers are still working or busy with other projects. Jack and Barbara are great with the forum, as are Gordie (past president), joefrazer (Jim Lape-past president), Mike McManama (membership secretary), and other past officers. ( I do think the 'read for free' and active membership for posting is worth a try.)
If not the officers deciding to make the forum go dark to the outside world.......then who?
Being an officer in any organization is often a thankless job, and a labor of love. However, this subject has been discussed here ad nauseum before, with MANY ideas on improving the situation. You'd think the officers could at least come here the few minutes it would take to become informed of the general consensus of this one subject.
-
( I do think the 'read for free' and active membership for posting is worth a try.)
I've thought a bit further on this model, and have found an objection, albeit conjectural only...
A member has an issue with a given repair, or tracing of a problem...something rare enough that none of the club members have a really good answer (and yes, I know this is probably unlikely, but not impossible) and the one guy who has run across it before and can give a definitive answer right off the bat...but can't post it because he's not a club member. Does he suddenly join just to post that answer, or does he go his merry way thinking, "their loss".
I do know such a scenario is unlikely, but it does illustrate a potential pitfall of even a partial closing...
-
( I do think the 'read for free' and active membership for posting is worth a try.)
I've thought a bit further on this model, and have found an objection, albeit conjectural only...
A member has an issue with a given repair, or tracing of a problem...something rare enough that none of the club members have a really good answer (and yes, I know this is probably unlikely, but not impossible) and the one guy who has run across it before and can give a definitive answer right off the bat...but can't post it because he's not a club member. Does he suddenly join just to post that answer, or does he go his merry way thinking, "their loss".
I do know such a scenario is unlikely, but it does illustrate a potential pitfall of even a partial closing...
Funny you should bring up such a scenario, especially when I recently happened to be in that exact position.
I recently did a big metal purge (1400lbs) of my shop with a trip to recycle. I had a vintage bumper jack that someone thought might be for a 40's or 50's Chevy, and mentioned a particular forum. I registered there but kept having trouble posting even though I followed instructions. I asked for help 3 times, each time receiving clipped answers, all in caps. Someone above here mentioned "churlish"........that's exactly what I felt I was getting. Long & short of it, after a few days of questions & belated answers.........I discovered I needed to pay $25 to post the jack photo there.
I just wanted someone who needed the jack to get it for the shipping, rather than being recycled. Guess where that jack ended up?
-
So not as far fetched as I thought...and a damn shame on that jack Mark. How many bits of our automotive history have been scrapped or discarded due to myopic vision or misguided choices? Not yours, but those who make it harder and harder to preserve this past. From your scrapped jack to that all too often example of a rare vehicle run through the crusher...the object of a club such as ours, or any club/forum/etc. dedicated to these magnificent examples of American ingenuity should be to preserve all they can of it...at all times.
Apologies...this is a sore spot for me. History is many things...people, ideas, innovation, "inventions, artifacts and examples". All need to be preserved, studied and understood. To do less would be the height of churlishness.
Well, that seals it for me...my definitive position is that the forum should remain open...for all the reasons advocating such that have been posted.
Now how do we get a group of officers who have eschewed the forum for greener (pun intended) climes to pay attention to our concerns? I rather like WillysTom's idea of having at least some of this collective reasoning in the next newsletter.
-
Don't beat up our club officers who do a fine job for us and the club as I am sure that they were not aware of President Mike Neubeker's decision. Usually these kind of decisions are made annually at the clubs National Meet which of course never happened this year. I am sure that Mike is now aware of the feelings of many K-F-W owners.
-
According to the Forum member list, we have over 2700.
How many of those members have "zero" posts?
If they are not taking the time to post, they probably won't be willing to shell out $5.00 for an associate membership.
I don't believe that the proposal will gain much revenue for the club.
Those of us that do post are probably already KFOCI members.
Just my $.02
Larry
-
According to the Forum member list, we have over 2700.
Many of those are drive-by members who have come on once and not again.
And a few I know of, ben-ETX to name just one, are long deceased and no one knows to clean that up (and how would they?).
I don't trust most sites. Just today I got a notification from LinkedIn to congratulate someone on a work anniversary for working at a company that person has not worked at for over 5 years! If they don't update their profile, the false information spreads. I also get notifications on FB informing me that one of my long deceased relatives has a birthday today and to send them good wishes! Again, if no one takes the site down after the person dies, the misleading false information spreads. I'm not blaming anyone or the moderator - if they don't know, they know.
2700 registered users? I've been using this forum for over 15 years and it's my observation that there's maybe 2 dozen at the most that are active and most of them are current KFOC members.
As I've stated, I have acquired many good parts and KF memorbilia, put many buyers in contact with sellers from the drive by posters and the officers want to take that away.
I pay my dues and I benefit from the drive-bys but apparently the officers of the club feel I should no longer be able to. I don't understand that.
-
Don't beat up our club officers who do a fine job for us and the club as I am sure that they were not aware of President Mike Neubeker's decision. Usually these kind of decisions are made annually at the clubs National Meet which of course never happened this year. I am sure that Mike is now aware of the feelings of many K-F-W owners.
So the club officers were not aware of the club's president's decision...that's not a club...if one person is making the decisions!
-
I am reminded of the old saying: "to cut off your nose to spite your face". That is exactly what will happen if this ban goes into effect. All of these comments should be sent to Barbara to be included in the KFOCI newsletter, print deadline is the 15th of the month.
I am well aware of the comments posted here, so please do NOT send me copies.
ps: I will respond to individual comments here where appropriate.
-
So the club officers were not aware of the club's president's decision...
NOT TRUE
-
It's not really fair to club officers to paint with such a broad brush about reading/being active on the forum. Not everyone has time to be active on a computer regularly. Some officers are still working or busy with other projects. Jack and Barbara are great with the forum, as are Gordie (past president), joefrazer (Jim Lape-past president), Mike McManama (membership secretary), and other past officers. ( I do think the 'read for free' and active membership for posting is worth a try.)
Thank you, Bob. I appreciate your understanding and support.
There's more to this issue than who has the time to be on here ... we have a wide variety of personalities/ages/interests/availability in this club and the Forum doesn't fill the need for everyone. The "diehards" here don't understand why some prefer Facebook, and some on Facebook can't fathom why you prefer this method. And then there are some on both sites ... plus the newly added YouTube channel. It's "different strokes for different folks"
There are a lot of factors being taken into consideration as we move forward to a new club website. At the top of the list is cost. I am not a computer expert, so forgive me if I use the wrong terminology, but in simple terms the bottom line is this: the Forum program is outdated and the info contained will not migrate to a new platform. Another factor is the amount of spam applications that our Webmaster has to weed through on a weekly basis, causing delays in the approval of new applicants. When the Forum becomes "members only" that frees up a lot of what Chris has to do, as well as giving new members immediate access.
As for the argument that some people join the Forum only to advertise cars or parts for sale, and we should continue to allow that ... WHY? They have to pay fees on eBay, Craigslist, local newspapers, Car Trader, etc. So asking $5 to be an Associate member is really a bargain, plus they also get free ads in the Bulletin - reaching even more members.
If you want support from the club, you need to support the club.
I know this does not address all your complaints, or explain other factors that are under consideration, but I hope it gives you a little insight. If you still wish to express your opposition, contact your Region Manager and/or Division Director, or send a group email to the officers: President@kfclub.com, VP@kfclub.com, Secretary@kfclub.com, Treasurer@kfclub.com
ps: free Forum access does not always encourage club membership - Jim Lape, past President & active Forum user, is a not a club member
-
So the club officers were not aware of the club's president's decision...
NOT TRUE
JUST QUOTING WHAT HAD ALREADY BEEN WRITTEN BY A FORMER CLUB PRESIDENT !!!
-
The Forum should be left open. KFOCI membership should be optional.
Maybe the new platform should require a new sign up which will purge deceased members and those who have moved on to other interests?
I also like the KFOCI Members Only section for access to documents like the Handbook, etc. A $5 Associates Membership is access to this tied to membership dues. Locked out of this section if membership not renewed. Have a symbol beside members name to indicate active KFOCI membership.
-
So the club officers were not aware of the club's president's decision...
NOT TRUE
JUST QUOTING WHAT HAD ALREADY BEEN WRITTEN BY A FORMER CLUB PRESIDENT !!!
Sorry - I should have quoted both you & Gordie. Mea culpa. Your comment was used because that's where I was when I clicked to reply. But I will be clear right now: you & Gordie are both WRONG. Mike did NOT decide this on his own. It was part of a compromise proposal WE made TOGETHER after reviewing our options for a new website.
-
That is interesting. The immediate past president is supposed to be informed about club business and be able to have input. The first I heard of it was the Presidents message this month. The club has certainly heard enough comments about disliking the idea. We will see what transpires and we will probably live through what ever decision the President makes.
-
I would think a decision of this magnitude should require the approval of the board of directors, of which the immediate past president is a member. According to the club's constitution, Article 4, Section 5, the board has control of the affairs and property of the club, to which the club's website and forum belongs. It appears that has not happened and a decision was made in a vacuum.
-
Without belaboring the point why I'm now an "Associate", or going into any of the many excellent ideas last time this was discussed here.......which I assume the full Board would want to read for themselves............I have one suggestion.
I think the Associate membership should cost double, the current $5 is too low.
-
You guys are kidding, right?
KF cars are great fun - remember? Limiting access to info will not help your cause.
Please keep the forum open to those of us who enjoy learning but don't enjoy committees.
-
I would think a decision of this magnitude should require the approval of the board of directors, of which the immediate past president is a member. According to the club's constitution, Article 4, Section 5, the board has control of the affairs and property of the club, to which the club's website and forum belongs. It appears that has not happened and a decision was made in a vacuum.
Seriously, Jim? Not only has your membership lapsed, but so has your memory: 4 years of you running the club without including the Board in decisions.
-
Err...ummm....
Is it just me, or does anyone else sense things have become a bit...tense...here?
I understand the issue is divisive...and I believe perhaps our current political climate has contributed to the level of discord in even this, a forum for a forlorn backwater of automotive history.
If I may...everyone chill...
The forum will flourish or fail, we'll still own and seek info on our KF cars, the world will still whirl on its axis, it will still revolve around the sun, our solar system will still revolve about a central point in the Milky Way and the Milky Way will still revolve about a central point in the universe.
And at no time will any of us be that central point.
Decorum ladies and gentlemen!
We can discuss this subject rationally and objectively, without rancor for peccadilloes past or current...
The current subject is whether banning non-KFOCI members from the forum is a good or bad idea...and it has nothing to do with board wars, infighting, crap flinging or silly songs sung about campfires with smores....am I right?
RIGHT!!!
Now don't make me come back here and separate you children...I"LL DO IT!!!...YOU"LL RIDE IN THE BACK SEAT OF THE MANHATTAN FOR THE NEXT YEAR...DAMN IT!!!
:D
-
No one board member in this case the President should be allowed to make unilateral decisions. Maybe I don't know the whole story.
-
So when does the ban start?
-
No one board member in this case the President should be allowed to make unilateral decisions.
To clarify (again): this decision was NOT made by Mike Neubecker alone.
Maybe I don't know the whole story.
In a personal phone call with Gordie Chamberlin last night I reminded him that he was part of a discussion at the National Convention in Granbury TX last year regarding the ongoing need for the club to find a replacement for our current web-based program. Gordie agreed that he strongly supported it then, but chose not to participate in the committee that was formed at that time. As a result he has not been actively kept aware of everything that has transpired.
In the past year, a number of options have been explored; unfortunately, most were not acceptable either due to cost or other factors. Program selection came down to the strong recommendation of our Webmaster, as he is the one who not only must tailor it for our needs/use, but also do the majority of the hard work to transfer and maintain the data.
No program is perfect, but this will suit our needs better (at less cost!) than the one Jim Lape unilaterally selected & committed the club to in 2015 without Board approval. I have the documentation to prove this if anyone wants to review it for themselves.
Those of you who are members should be aware that a dues increase is imminent. It was presented by Mike Neubecker in the Bulletin, wherein he asked for member feedback. Slightly more than 10% of the members responded, very favorably. Which again begs the question of why should we ask members to pay more dues but continue to give free access to non-members ~ especially when they can join as a $5 Associate to retain their access to the Forum. That's less than 50 cents per month. If they don't feel the info/support they get here is worth it, then what is the value to them?
-
So when does the ban start?
If all goes well, the new website will debut in January 2021.
-
....................... why should we ask members to pay more dues but continue to give free access to non-members ~ especially when they can join as a $5 Associate to retain their access to the Forum. That's less than 50 cents per month. If they don't feel the info/support they get here is worth it, then what is the value to them?
......................
Let the facts answer that, I can think of two that are fairly relevant.
How many forum members became paying club members AFTER joining the forum, compared to new members recruited at car shows and the KF Club page?
I know for sure that two members who added to just this one discussion were forum participants first, then became new recruits.
Is the club recruiting enough new members elsewhere to write off the ones joining after "freeloading" here?
A dues increase is going to keep the club afloat & install a more efficient forum program, all well & good. If the bills are covered......... and I'm paying anyway......... what's the downside for me....... to leaving the forum open?
I'm also curious just exactly how many of the 2700+ here, including the "freeloaders" still respond their registered email address.
-
How many forum members became paying club members AFTER joining the forum, compared to new members recruited at car shows and the KF Club page?
I know for sure that two members who added to just this one discussion were forum participants first, then became new recruits.
Here's the data I have on Forum non-members who became club members:
You joined the Forum in 2013, and became a KFOCI Associate in 2017 (still active);
"Roadmaster49" joined the forum in 2010, and joined KFOCI in May 2019 (membership lapsed);
"konrad" joined the Forum in January 2020 and joined KFOCI in February 2020 (already renewed for another year).
I am not aware of any other converts ... if you know more, please enlighten me.
FYI: the club added 53 new members so far this year. There were no 2020 club Meets, and local car shows were scarce (if any at all) so I feel safe saying none came from those sources. Many joined after interactions I & others had with them on Facebook (Official & unofficial pages), at least 12 were recruited by Larry Barker, some joined in search for a car, and others joined after buying or inheriting a car. Unfortunately, I don't have data on where the others came from.
EDITED TO ADD: "Carpenter" joined the Forum in April 2015, and became a KFOCI member November 2017 (membership lapsed).
-
I joined 10 years ago when I had a 1949 Virginian. It lapsed after the sale. I rejoined and sent in a small additional amount to specifically support the forum. I think I sent in $25 so in theory I should be good for 5 years.
Barbara makes many good points. The o e issue I have is while she notes 54 new members have joined in 2020 how many have passed away or not renewed? How many of those lifetime members have decided to become non lifetime members in order to help the club survive?
I agree it's time to pay for the website. It will transform the club. For better or worse. Do it, and let's see the result.
-
I joined 10 years ago when I had a 1949 Virginian. It lapsed after the sale. I rejoined
I had to do some deep digging in my Bulletin mailing lists to find your original membership info: you joined in January 2011, and were assigned # 10214. The reason I didn't have that info earlier is that when the membership database was uploaded to the current program in 2016 only active members were transferred. This also explains why you were given a new membership # when you rejoined (16291). Should you decide to come back in to the club just let me know which # you want to use.
Barbara makes many good points.
Thank you.
in 2020 how many have passed away or not renewed?
We were notified that 16 passed away (there may be more we are not aware of) and 64 memberships have lapsed in 2020 (this does not include the deceased).
How many of those lifetime members have decided to become non lifetime members in order to help the club survive?
After the Treasurers Report at the 2019 National Convention revealed a $9000 shortfall between anticipated 2019/2020 fiscal year income and expenses, 15 Lifetime members stepped forward with generous donations. And many of them also switched from print publications to the email versions, saving the club additional funds (printing & postage).
I agree it's time to pay for the website. It will transform the club. For better or worse. Do it, and let's see the result.
Again, thank you.
-
I'm in an odd spot frankly. I own NO old hobby cars after owning 270 in the past 35 years including 2 Kaisers. I mostly became interested in KF as a historical oddity so to speak. I enjoy the historical aspect of the cars and reading the history. I will likely NOT own any KF's. I'm 57 almost.
I visit the forum less and less as the activity has dropped off. I went to paperless on the Bulletins during my last membership. I won't likely go to any regionals and might have stopped in to a National if it was Midwest based.
I consider myself to have some friends in the KF world. I met Rudy Phillips when he stopped by my house to pick up some Virginian parts. I corresponded with a member in Pennsylvania that Jim Lape put me onto, that had some Dragons for sale.
When it comes to club publications, in my 2 stints - I have ultimately thrown everything away. They don't have lasting value to me. So I don't want any more print items. I am a member of 3 Railroad Historical Societies - this is where my hobby interests went away from cars - and I get their publications and calendars.
You can only hang so many calendars up around a house. I occasionally find a KF item in stacks of magazines, and I usually toss it. I also frankly see a dying club that is making no real effort to join other dying clubs ala 1954 when all of the independents with egotistical ownership that did not want to cede power should have!
It's not just joint meets with the Hudson or Nash crowds, or others, it should be a formal new club. This would increase interest across the clubs. Instantly buoy numbers, improve funds, and lead to better attended meets. But instead all memberships keep dropping until like the 1950's the clubs will cease to exist. Then everyone may become a chapter of the AACA.
I therefore, personally like the $5 "associate member" fee as I can "join" the forum for 10 years until the club ceases and have access to the forum. But what will the forum look like if at least 50% of the "newbies" or guys who come less frequently to an already dwindling forum disappear?
That's why I say just pull the plug, get it done and let's see.
-
Barbara, you missed jneely but regardless, the facts speak for themselves.
Roadmaster also makes several valid observations.
After Facebook has been maligned by quite a few here, apparently the FB recruits are what's keeping the club alive. It's also what's keeping an active Aero group alive. It seems there's not much to gain or lose no matter which way this forum goes.
Looks to me the main value of this forum is currently the knowledge archived here. As long as the new program can selectively search it, then keep it running at minimal cost, as long as it has traffic.
-
Barbara, you missed jneely
Thanks. I searched and found he joined the Forum in March 2017 and the KFOCI in May 2017.
-
I had to do some deep digging in my Bulletin mailing lists to find your original membership info: you joined in January 2011, and were assigned # 10214. The reason I didn't have that info earlier is that when the membership database was uploaded to the current program in 2016 only active members were transferred. This also explains why you were given a new membership # when you rejoined (16291). Should you decide to come back in to the club just let me know which # you want to use.
Again, thank you.
I'm in the club now. When my full membership was about to expire last winter I switched to the Associate level I'm currently at.
-
Given the info presented so far, I would have to say it is not likely closing the forum to non-members would have a significant effect on retarding new membership.
For my part, though I joined the forum a month before I became a member, my intent was always to become a member...I was just waiting to assure Betsy would be mine before I pulled the trigger. Once I was sure the car was mine, no hesitation. My joining the forum first was my process of finding what information was available, as I went through the purchase process.
I would recommend the forum be open for read only to non-members, with the possibility of posting to the cars/parts portion to non-members, for reasons already delineated.
If such a course turns out to be detrimental, the forum can always be reopened to input from non-members...
-
I wasn't going to comment on this thread, since to me this is a KFOCI decision, and I am not a member of KFOCI. But, I do look at this forum each day, and occasionally post when I feel I can add value, so decided to provide input from an 'outsider'.
I fully understand the issues related to paying for all the expenses of a national club, including the costs of a website. I frequent this forum because I do have an interest in K-F and Kaiser-Willys products, and would like to have an Aero Willys one day. I learn a lot from this forum, and want to keep accessing this forum, so I have no issue joining as an Associate Member. Even if I only accessed the forum once a week, that's only 10 cents each time (or 20 cents if cost goes to $10). No big deal in my mind, what I receive from this forum far outweighs a few bucks a year.
-
I fully understand the issues related to paying for all the expenses of a national club, including the costs of a website. I frequent this forum because I do have an interest in K-F and Kaiser-Willys products, and would like to have an Aero Willys one day. I learn a lot from this forum, and want to keep accessing this forum, so I have no issue joining as an Associate Member. Even if I only accessed the forum once a week, that's only 10 cents each time (or 20 cents if cost goes to $10). No big deal in my mind, what I receive from this forum far outweighs a few bucks a year.
Thank you