NON MEMBER BAN FROM FORUM

[Roadmaster49]

No one board member in this case the President  should be allowed to make unilateral  decisions.  Maybe I don't know the whole story.

[Roadmaster49]

So when does the ban start?

[Bulletin Editor]

No one board member in this case the President  should be allowed to make unilateral  decisions.

To clarify (again): this decision was NOT made by Mike Neubecker alone.

Maybe I don't know the whole story.

In a personal phone call with Gordie Chamberlin last night I reminded him that he was part of a discussion at the National Convention in Granbury TX last year regarding the ongoing need for the club to find a replacement for our current web-based program. Gordie agreed that he strongly supported it then, but chose not to participate in the committee that was formed at that time. As a result he has not been actively kept aware of everything that has transpired.

In the past year, a number of options have been explored; unfortunately, most were not acceptable either due to cost or other factors. Program selection came down to the strong recommendation of our Webmaster, as he is the one who not only must tailor it for our needs/use, but also do the majority of the hard work to transfer and maintain the data.

No program is perfect, but this will suit our needs better (at less cost!) than the one Jim Lape unilaterally selected & committed the club to in 2015 without Board approval. I have the documentation to prove this if anyone wants to review it for themselves.

Those of you who are members should be aware that a dues increase is imminent. It was presented by Mike Neubecker in the Bulletin, wherein he asked for member feedback. Slightly more than 10% of the members responded, very favorably. Which again begs the question of why should we ask members to pay more dues but continue to give free access to non-members ~ especially when they can join as a $5 Associate to retain their access to the Forum. That's less than 50 cents per month. If they don't feel the info/support they get here is worth it, then what is the value to them?
 

[Bulletin Editor]

So when does the ban start?

If all goes well, the new website will debut in January 2021.

[MarkH]

....................... why should we ask members to pay more dues but continue to give free access to non-members ~ especially when they can join as a $5 Associate to retain their access to the Forum. That's less than 50 cents per month. If they don't feel the info/support they get here is worth it, then what is the value to them?
......................

Let the facts answer that, I can think of two that are fairly relevant.

How many forum members became paying club members AFTER joining the forum, compared to new members recruited at car shows and the KF Club page?
I know for sure that two members who added to just this one discussion were forum participants first, then became new recruits.
Is the club recruiting enough new members elsewhere to write off the ones joining after "freeloading" here?

A dues increase is going to keep the club afloat & install a more efficient forum program, all well & good. If the bills are covered......... and I'm paying anyway......... what's the downside for me....... to leaving the forum open?

I'm also curious just exactly how many of the 2700+ here, including the "freeloaders" still respond their registered email address.

[Bulletin Editor]

How many forum members became paying club members AFTER joining the forum, compared to new members recruited at car shows and the KF Club page?
I know for sure that two members who added to just this one discussion were forum participants first, then became new recruits.

Here's the data I have on Forum non-members who became club members:
      You joined the Forum in 2013, and became a KFOCI Associate in 2017 (still active);
     "Roadmaster49" joined the forum in 2010, and joined KFOCI in May 2019 (membership lapsed);
     "konrad" joined the Forum in January 2020 and joined KFOCI in February 2020 (already renewed for another year). 

I am not aware of any other converts ... if you know more, please enlighten me.

FYI: the club added 53 new members so far this year. There were no 2020 club Meets, and local car shows were scarce (if any at all) so I feel safe saying none came from those sources.   Many joined after interactions I & others had with them on Facebook (Official & unofficial pages), at least 12 were recruited by Larry Barker, some joined in search for a car, and others joined after buying or inheriting a car.  Unfortunately, I don't have data on where the others came from.


EDITED TO ADD: "Carpenter" joined the Forum in April 2015, and became a KFOCI member November 2017 (membership lapsed).

[Roadmaster49]

I joined 10 years ago when I had a 1949 Virginian.  It lapsed after the sale.  I rejoined and sent in a small  additional  amount to specifically support the forum. I think I sent in $25 so in theory I should be good for 5 years.

Barbara makes many good points.  The o e issue I have is while she notes 54 new members have joined in 2020 how many have passed away or not renewed?  How many of those lifetime members have decided to become non lifetime members in order to help the club survive? 

I agree it's time to pay for the website. It will transform the club. For better or worse. Do it, and let's see the result.   

[Bulletin Editor]

I joined 10 years ago when I had a 1949 Virginian.  It lapsed after the sale.  I rejoined

I had to do some deep digging in my Bulletin mailing lists to find your original membership info: you joined in January 2011, and were assigned # 10214. The reason I didn't have that info earlier is that when the membership database was uploaded to the current program in 2016 only active members were transferred. This also explains why you were given a new membership # when you rejoined (16291). Should you decide to come back in to the club just let me know which # you want to use.

Barbara makes many good points. 

Thank you.

in 2020 how many have passed away or not renewed?

We were notified that 16 passed away (there may be more we are not aware of) and 64 memberships have lapsed in 2020 (this does not include the deceased).

How many of those lifetime members have decided to become non lifetime members in order to help the club survive? 

After the Treasurers Report at the 2019 National Convention revealed a $9000 shortfall between anticipated 2019/2020 fiscal year income and expenses, 15 Lifetime members stepped forward with generous donations. And many of them also switched from print publications to the email versions, saving the club additional funds (printing & postage). 

I agree it's time to pay for the website. It will transform the club. For better or worse. Do it, and let's see the result.

Again, thank you.

[Roadmaster49]

I'm in an odd spot frankly. I own NO old hobby cars after owning 270 in the past 35 years including 2 Kaisers.  I mostly became interested in KF as a historical oddity so to speak.  I enjoy the  historical aspect of the cars and reading the history.  I will likely NOT own any KF's. I'm 57 almost.

I visit the forum less and less as the activity has dropped off.  I went to paperless on the Bulletins during my last membership. I won't likely go to any regionals and might have stopped in to a National if it was Midwest based. 

I consider myself to have some friends in the KF world. I met Rudy Phillips when he stopped by my house to pick up some Virginian parts.  I corresponded with a member in Pennsylvania that Jim Lape put me onto, that had some Dragons for sale. 

When it comes to club publications, in my 2 stints - I have ultimately thrown everything away.  They don't have lasting value to me.  So I don't want any more print items.  I am a member of 3 Railroad Historical Societies - this is where my hobby interests went away from cars - and I get their publications and calendars. 

You can only hang so many calendars up around a house.  I occasionally find a KF item in stacks of magazines, and I usually toss it.  I also frankly see a dying club that is making no real effort to join other dying clubs ala 1954 when all of the independents with egotistical ownership that did not want to cede power should have! 

It's not just joint meets with the Hudson or Nash crowds, or others, it should be a formal new club.  This would increase interest across the clubs. Instantly buoy numbers, improve funds, and lead to better attended meets.  But instead all memberships keep dropping until like the 1950's the clubs will cease to exist.  Then everyone may become a chapter of the AACA. 

I therefore, personally like the $5 "associate member" fee as I can "join" the forum for 10 years until the club ceases and have access to the forum.  But what will the forum look like if at least 50% of the "newbies" or guys who come less frequently to an already dwindling forum disappear? 

That's why I say just pull the plug, get it done and let's see.   

[MarkH]

Barbara, you missed jneely but regardless, the facts speak for themselves.
Roadmaster also makes several valid observations.

After Facebook has been maligned by quite a few here, apparently the FB recruits are what's keeping the club alive. It's also what's keeping an active Aero group alive. It seems there's not much to gain or lose no matter which way this forum goes.

Looks to me the main value of this forum is currently the knowledge archived here. As long as the new program can selectively search it, then keep it running at minimal cost, as long as it has traffic.

[Bulletin Editor]

Barbara, you missed jneely

Thanks. I searched and found he joined the Forum in March 2017 and the KFOCI in May 2017.

[MarkH]

I had to do some deep digging in my Bulletin mailing lists to find your original membership info: you joined in January 2011, and were assigned # 10214. The reason I didn't have that info earlier is that when the membership database was uploaded to the current program in 2016 only active members were transferred. This also explains why you were given a new membership # when you rejoined (16291). Should you decide to come back in to the club just let me know which # you want to use.

Again, thank you.

I'm in the club now. When my full membership was about to expire last winter I switched to the Associate level I'm currently at.

[konrad]

Given the info presented so far, I would have to say it is not likely closing the forum to non-members would have a significant effect on retarding new membership.

For my part, though I joined the forum a month before I became a member, my intent was always to become a member...I was just waiting to assure Betsy would be mine before I pulled the trigger.  Once I was sure the car was mine, no hesitation.  My joining the forum first was my process of finding what information was available, as I went through the purchase process.

I would recommend the forum be open for read only to non-members, with the possibility of posting to the cars/parts portion to non-members, for reasons already delineated.

If such a course turns out to be detrimental, the forum can always be reopened to input from non-members...

[r1lark]

I wasn't going to comment on this thread, since to me this is a KFOCI  decision, and I am not a member of KFOCI. But, I do look at this forum each day, and occasionally post when I feel I can add value, so decided to provide input from an 'outsider'.

I fully understand the issues related to paying for all the expenses of a national club, including the costs of a website. I frequent this forum because I do have an interest in K-F and Kaiser-Willys products, and would like to have an Aero Willys one day. I learn a lot from this forum, and want to keep accessing this forum, so I have no issue joining as an Associate Member. Even if I only accessed the forum once a week, that's only 10 cents each time (or 20 cents if cost goes to $10).  No big deal in my mind, what I receive from this forum far outweighs a few bucks a year.

[Bulletin Editor]

I fully understand the issues related to paying for all the expenses of a national club, including the costs of a website. I frequent this forum because I do have an interest in K-F and Kaiser-Willys products, and would like to have an Aero Willys one day. I learn a lot from this forum, and want to keep accessing this forum, so I have no issue joining as an Associate Member. Even if I only accessed the forum once a week, that's only 10 cents each time (or 20 cents if cost goes to $10).  No big deal in my mind, what I receive from this forum far outweighs a few bucks a year.

Thank you