Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: kaiserfrazerlibrary on October 29, 2020, 11:17:01 AM
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If only the prices asked by some people for K-F cars, parts and collectables (like the thermometer for Solvay Motors) were actual regular market prices. 4,000 or more for the 1948 Frazer Manhattan (at least I think that thing is a Manhattn) advertised on eBay, or in the area of collectables, that Solvay Motors thermometer. The reasons given by sellers include
1. THEY DON'T MAKE THEM ANY MORE Check the OLD CARS PRICE GUIDES They have not made Durants since the end of the 1920's (or thereabouts) and fewer of them were made than K-F cars) yet they are nowhere near high 5 or 6 figure prices in condition 1 or 2 contidion.
2. THERE ARE FEW IF ANY AROUD Who's fault is that. If people with cars (and I do know that many owners do this) would take them to their local general old car shows or events (other than street rod/dragster/custom events or single-make specialty events like all-Ford shows) people would know they are still around and if people checked on their prices and parts availability would find that prices paid for stuff is MUCH lower than expected
3. THE PERSON I BOUGHT THE CAR (or parts or collectable) FROM SAID IT WAS WORTH THAT MUCH IF NOT A LOT MORE. And how many weeks, months (or even years) had the person tried to sell it at?
I put this up here because well over half the members of the Forum are not members of the KFOCI and, according to the November 2020 Monthly Bulletin (which already went out in email form and was mailed at the printer recently), only KFOCI members will be allowed to access the new Forum on the new club website that is expected to be up and running in the first quarter of 2021 with January 2021 as the target date. Also, be advised that when the current website gets replaced any info on this Forum platform will be lost, so if there is anything in particular people want to save, now is the time to do it.
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It is interesting. A few months ago, a '51/'52 Henry J speedometer/cluster went unsold on ebay for $30. I paid $25 for one last spring and had 3 to choose from at the time. Then... earlier this month, someone offered one up for sale on ebay for $200, a number the seller likely pulled out of the sky, and then within days there were three more listed from $200 - $350! Likely following the lead of the first one, which by the way, has no bids after three times around listing it.
I don't think the sellers do any real research to determine prices.
What they need to know regarding Henry J gauge cluster is these cars have been and are still getting made into customs at a much larger rate than those being restored which means these clusters are abundant and will be readily available for a long time to come. Someone that would pay $200 for one likely has not yet been born.
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I put this up here because well over half the members of the Forum are not members of the KFOCI and, according to the November 2020 Monthly Bulletin (which already went out in email form and was mailed at the printer recently), only KFOCI members will be allowed to access the new Forum on the new club website that is expected to be up and running in the first quarter of 2021 with January 2021 as the target date. Also, be advised that when the current website gets replaced any info on this Forum platform will be lost, so if there is anything in particular people want to save, now is the time to do it.
Well, the longtime dream will finally come to pass......utter exclusivity of the forum.
And then for good measure....... losing all the searchable info archived here.
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The current platform (which was implemented during the time of Jim Lape's Presidency) is run by a Canadian company called Wild Apricot (which I will refer to here as WA). It was pricey as it continued a lot of features we had to pay for, but never had a need to use. WA also periodically raised prices and it appears they had the right to do so at will (didn't anybody read their contract?) as a result we're paying more than double each month compared to the cost of the new platform.
While we can get migration of member information to the new platform, the Forum as it currently exists will not make a move. I believe that this reflects the work and $$$ required to make such a move. The current Forum membership contains a fairly small percentage of club members and, I'm sorry folks, this organization cannot afford to carry the non-members (and according to the working papers of the KFOCI we should not be carring non-members).
If any non-club members want to continue using the forum, they can join the KFOCI as an Associate Member for $5.00 a year. Associate members have the rights and privledges of regular members EXCEPT receiving club publications either by e-mail (at the new Digital rate) or snail mail.
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The current Forum membership contains a fairly small percentage of club members and, I'm sorry folks, this organization cannot afford to carry the non-members (and according to the working papers of the KFOCI we should not be carring non-members).
I've seen mention of this before and it's one point I'm "fuzzy" on understanding. How a will a non member viewing the site accrue an additional cost the members will have to "carry".
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be advised that when the current website gets replaced any info on this Forum platform will be lost, so if there is anything in particular people want to save, now is the time to do it.
Does this mean that the forum will start from scratch and all the helpful information that has accumulated through the years will not be available?
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Our National president and most of the club officers do not like or want the forum and they prefer the K-F Facebook site. Such a waste that we have filled the forum pages with great retrievable information that they will just delete. I guess that the many members that have contributed for ten years may as well delete their own thousands of answers as they mean nothing to the club. I never thought that this club would do something like this. The new forum will have no meaning or purpose without a history.
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So all the great info from here, all the searchable posts for parts identification, fixes, interchange options is to be lost in moving to the new forum?
In that case I would say there's really no reason to start a new forum. I can say that from experience. I was a member of a forum dedicated to another hobby for many years. In a dispute with the host provider, the host shut the old forum down and a couple decades or more of info on that hobby (all the same sorts of info that can be found here, just related to a different sort of mechanical devices) disappeared into the ether.
A new forum was created, with the forum owners hosting it personally, so such a thing could not happen again, but all the history was lost and gone forever. The forum never recovered, quickly became a shell of its former self, with people drifting away. It's now a shell of its former self, sparsely populated, very little of the original history, hints, tips, info having ever been recreated.
If the info here will not be saved/migrated...might as well just put a stake in its heart and close the coffin.
Sorry for the doom and gloom, but that's my perspective based on personal experience, and the forum I speak of once had tens of thousands of members, thousands of whom were active on a weekly basis, and it was once the largest forum for the particular hobby it addressed on the interwebz. If it couldn't recover from that, I have little hope for much future for this one.
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So all the great info from here, all the searchable posts for parts identification, fixes, interchange options is to be lost in moving to the new forum?
In that case I would say there's really no reason to start a new forum. I can say that from experience. I was a member of a forum dedicated to another hobby for many years. In a dispute with the host provider, the host shut the old forum down and a couple decades or more of info on that hobby (all the same sorts of info that can be found here, just related to a different sort of mechanical devices) disappeared into the ether.
A new forum was created, with the forum owners hosting it personally, so such a thing could not happen again, but all the history was lost and gone forever. The forum never recovered, quickly became a shell of its former self, with people drifting away. It's now a shell of its former self, sparsely populated, very little of the original history, hints, tips, info having ever been recreated.
If the info here will not be saved/migrated...might as well just put a stake in its heart and close the coffin.
Sorry for the doom and gloom, but that's my perspective based on personal experience, and the forum I speak of once had tens of thousands of members, thousands of whom were active on a weekly basis, and it was once the largest forum for the particular hobby it addressed on the interwebz. If it couldn't recover from that, I have little hope for much future for this one.
I could easily corroborate this type of outcome with a similar experience.....but in a word..........agreed.
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I could easily corroborate this type of outcome with a similar experience.....but in a word..........agreed.
To be honest, it was the great info on these cars that I found here that convinced me to join KFOCI...it was a mature forum dedicated to their owners, old info that could still be found, current owners willing to help guide new devotees to what was needed, and I have not been let down by the current membership in the questions I've asked. All of you with great knowledge of these cars have helped me immensely since I bought my Kaiser.
So much history...how many posts on this forum by members now gone will be lost when it disappears...to say nothing of the current members who may decline to repost again, info they've already imparted...because...why? It's all ephemeral...why bother.
History is a thing to be preserved, not jettisoned due to monetary imperatives...but what do I know...I'm just a noob...
But, here is my prediction based on the abandonment of this database of info...
The new forum will be a disaster...members will sign up but posting will be sparse.
Membership will decline...as I mentioned, the forum was a big selling point on me joining KFOCI. If there was no forum with all the info here when I joined, what would be my impetus to join? Because I could get quarterlies and newsletters? Please...
I need info that helps me maintain and keep my KF vehicle on the road...when I push the gas pedal I want it to go, when I hit the brake I want it to stop. Knowing what KF offered to the dealers in '51 is interesting to me on a historical level, but it does not give me that bit of info from a post 3 years ago on the forum that explains why my carb is behaving badly, nor where I can get a rebuild kit, nor who can rebuild it for me if I can't.
I'll play along with this foolishness for a bit, but I will infer that within a year I will find the best info on KF vehicles with a google search, and the KFOCI website will be a wasteland...
And the loss!!!! To owners, old...and new as they come along...the loss!!!!
Throw the baby out with the bathwater...
And why would I renew my membership without a valid database of info on these cars, if this one disappears? Or a relatively vibrant group of folks (as I have found here) willing to help? Because they will disperse when all their hard work has been expunged. Why repeat effort and work that has been deemed without merit, not worthy of salvage? Hell, just send that old car to the crusher...
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Why would anyone become a full member if $5 gets them access to the club as an e member? Does $5 get you the e Monthly bulletins?
How much would it cost to migrate all of the data to a new server?
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Hell, just send that old car to the crusher...
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The club is on life support and likely wont make it. The AACA hosts a KF section. It could be expanded at no cost to the club.
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Back to migrating the data to a new server. Can we capture the existing site data and make it a standalone reference?
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Information on here is better than a monster sized library. Why destroy all of that information?
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Who are you guys asking? The Historian? His wife the Bulletin Editor? The forum is dead. In 2 months. The club is moving in a different direction. The current President and his minions, and they might be perfectly nice people - are not on the forum and never have been. Old timers rarely are. Thankfully some of our old timers are, but overall when I was trying to buy a KF in 2019, my posting in the Bulletin had a lot more interest than on the forum. 10 to 1.
They are not on the Internet and good for them. I spend too much time there (Internet)
What I found were some sellers, aged, who wanted $30,000 for their cars, despite the fact they paid $1000 for them years ago. or got them off used car lots for $350. I am painting a broad brush but c'mon.
2 of those guys have since passed on. My budget was $15,000 for 2 cars. I purchased Cadillacs instead. Now I am no longer a member of any club.
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Who are you guys asking? The Historian? His wife the Bulletin Editor? The forum is dead. In 2 months. The club is moving in a different direction. The current President and his minions, and they might be perfectly nice people - are not on the forum and never have been. Old timers rarely are. Thankfully some of our old timers are, but overall when I was trying to buy a KF in 2019, my posting in the Bulletin had a lot more interest than on the forum. 10 to 1.
They are not on the Internet and good for them. I spend too much time there (Internet)
What I found were some sellers, aged, who wanted $30,000 for their cars, despite the fact they paid $1000 for them years ago. or got them off used car lots for $350. I am painting a broad brush but c'mon.
2 of those guys have since passed on. My budget was $15,000 for 2 cars. I purchased Cadillacs instead. Now I am no longer a member of any club.
May be time for you to move on??? Not sayin...just sayin! ::)
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Of course you would say that. Wouldn't expect anything less.
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I'm just a Newbie on this Forum, and a KFOCI member. I joined both at the same time when I purchased my 53 HJ.
I have found that I gleaned more useful information from the Forum then from the Monthly Bulletins.
Losing all the data/history in the Forum would be a great loss!!
That being said, I've noticed that the Forum is a Simple Machines Forum which is open-source. What that means is the data-base that contains the information could be / should be easily exported to a read only type format. That way the old information could be accessed (but not changed). It shouldn't be that difficult/expensive.
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Our webmaster did an exhaustive search for a new platform that could accommodate moving the Forum "as is." Unfortunately, it does not exist - at any price. This is NOT the first time the Forum had to be moved to a new platform. This version of the Forum started "from scratch" in March 2007. Everything prior to that was deleted. So, what makes this move any different?
You can save all the information to your own computer for future reference. It's really a simple process: click on any topic in any category then click on PRINT in the upper right corner. Viola! You will have every single word of every single post in that thread. Depending on the number of posts/pages it takes a few seconds to a few minutes to format, then SAVE to a folder on your computer.
Please, stop demonizing the club Officers who had to make a financial decision for the future of the club, and those who prefer Facebook - I've never heard any of them demean you for your choice of the Forum. As I've said before: different strokes for different folks.
ps: a reminder to non-members that you can join KFOCI as an Associate for just $5 per year to remain active on the Forum.
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Why would anyone become a full member if $5 gets them access to the club as an e member? Does $5 get you the e Monthly bulletins?
No, the $5 Associate membership, which includes voting rights and coverage under the club liability insurance policy at official club events, does not include publications.
However, a new membership level will be available starting 1/1/21 for those that do want publications: receive eBulletin, eQuarterly and printed Calendar for $25 annually.
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You can save all the information to your own computer for future reference. It's really a simple process: click on any topic in any category then click on PRINT in the upper right corner. Viola! You will have every single word of every single post in that thread. Depending on the number of posts/pages it takes a few seconds to a few minutes to format, then SAVE to a folder on your computer.
Really? This is a solution? There are 45 pages for the Henry J / Allstate forum. It could take hours, not minutes to "print" all of the posts . I still think that it would be not that difficult to incorporate a "read only" of the forum posts to the new website.
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I could be wrong, but I see a lot of valuable information, from YEARS, going own the tube.
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You can save all the information to your own computer for future reference. It's really a simple process: click on any topic in any category then click on PRINT in the upper right corner. Viola! You will have every single word of every single post in that thread. Depending on the number of posts/pages it takes a few seconds to a few minutes to format, then SAVE to a folder on your computer.
Print doesn't exist for a given subject, only for specific posts. That means I need to wade through the forum and save each and every post thread I think is , or might be, or might in future be...of interest or helpful. How will I determine which particular post, not helpful today, might be next year? Shall I go through and save every Virginian post now? I don't currently own a Virginian, but maybe I'll buy one in two years...who knows?
Look, I get it! The current leadership no longer really cares about the forum, nor its history of posts, nor the wisdom of members current and deceased that is archived here.
Kill it! Put a stake in the club's heart if that is your great desire. Just don't be surprised when it kills the club itself...because that IS what you will be doing. Perhaps you believe I'm being overly dramatic, but I can assure you I am not.
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All,
Sorry I haven't posted sooner, but as you can imagine, I've been a bit preoccupied. The decision has been made by the club to start a new forum to accompany the newest version of the club website to be released for 2021. The current version of our Forum is ancient and has needed an upgrade for years, at least in my opinion. Due to its age and other factors, migrating the historical data to a newer version is quite problematic. I've consulted with the tech people who created the forum software that we will be using going forward, and they have also yet to find an acceptable method of transferring the old data to the new forum. Even migrating this data to a newer version of the system we currently use doesn't work.
A couple things I want to make clear:
- The decision to move to a new website was not mine, but that of the Board of Directors. Initially, I wasn't thrilled to have to recreate yet another club website, but I do support the club's decision at this time to move to a cheaper alternative as our current "Wild Apricot" version of the club website is now too costly to continue.
- I do not plan on erasing the current, soon to be old, version of the forum. At least, not anytime soon. I, too, believe the historical data in our current version of the forum is important to many, including myself. I search old posts regularly for tech tips and other info. I have been, and will continue, to search for an acceptable way to keep a legacy version of this forum (or its data) available. It is, however, unlikely that any legacy version will go live simultaneously with the new forum.
- "Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum" is the first thing you read at the top of the page. It belongs to the club, not me. If the club decides to make membership in the club a prerequisite for accessing the forum, they are allowed to do so as it is their forum. It might not be a popular decision, but it is up to our elected officials to make decisions they feel will benefit the club. Without getting too political.... Are you unhappy with the club's decision? As many of us will see in this week's presidential & local elections, it is important to vote in order to voice your opinion, but that doesn't mean things will always go your way. Did you vote in the last club election? Are you a member of the club?
Solely My Opinion:
Aside from my family & friends, few things in life bring me as much joy as the classic car hobby. Many of you that I have supplied parts with over the years have supported my passion to be your modern day KF parts hub, and I'm thankful that I've been able to help keep your Kaiser, Frazer, HJ, Darrin, or Willys on the road for you and others to enjoy. While I may not be able to attend every one, there is something about going to KFOCI club meets, at least for me, that warms the soul. Seeing old friends, meeting new ones, and sharing a love for these old hunks of tin. I'm easily 30-50 years younger than many of our club's members, but I'm always surprised how similar my passion for these cars is, and how each member got interested in them. Being part of KFOCI is important to me, but it may not be for you. If you wish to remain unaffiliated with a club, that is your right, and there certainly isn't any harm in doing so. If you aren't interested in being part of the club, but wish to voice negative opinions about such, on the club's forum, that seems odd to me. Negativity often spawns more of the same, and that certainly isn't going to help foster anyone's enjoyment of our hobby. Don't be surprised when you see your negative posts deleted.
Kaiserly,
Chris
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All,
A couple things I want to make clear:
- I do not plan on erasing the current, soon to be old, version of the forum. At least, not anytime soon. I, too, believe the historical data in our current version of the forum is important to many, including myself. I search old posts regularly for tech tips and other info. I have been, and will continue, to search for an acceptable way to keep a legacy version of this forum (or its data) available. It is, however, unlikely that any legacy version will go live simultaneously with the new forum.
Kaiserly,
Chris
Thank you for the explanation Chris!
I am the webmaster for a local Sports Car Club, and I am on the third re-design of the website. I feel your pain!
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I don't know who told who what, but the Monthly Bulletin of this club is intended to cover things for sale or wanted (including what's currently available from the manufacturing fund, comings and goin gs within the club (we had a lot on upcoming and jus finished club events becore COVID) and odds and ends. It is NOT normally supposed to have service information, restoration tips, etc. That is part of the Quarterly magazine's Spring and Fall issues (because that's what the membership wanted back in 2017-2018) PROVIDED members shared information for publication. Rarely, if ever does anyone send things in.
A lot of information also handled through e-mail and phone conversations. Konrad is a good example. He and I have gone back and forth on questions about his car. I am happy to do this and if there is something I can't answer I can refer him to someone who can. In most cases these referreals are with people who rarely if ever use the forum. I urge other members with questions to try this route if they have not do so al ready. Most of the current Forum membership are non-members who have no intention of joining the club not because of any politics but (and this is only mu humble opinion) seem to take the position that if they can get what they want for free, why join the lcub or otherwise try to support it.
Cris' posting on the why and wherefores with all that is going on concerning the Forum and Club Website does a very good job explaining toe backstory as to why certain things are done. Remember, unlike our cars, something computer-related that is more than a few years old is something that will soon be relegated to the scrap heap.
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You can save all the information to your own computer for future reference. It's really a simple process: click on any topic in any category then click on PRINT in the upper right corner. Viola! You will have every single word of every single post in that thread. Depending on the number of posts/pages it takes a few seconds to a few minutes to format, then SAVE to a folder on your computer.
Really? This is a solution? There are 45 pages for the Henry J / Allstate forum. It could take hours, not minutes to "print" all of the posts . I still think that it would be not that difficult to incorporate a "read only" of the forum posts to the new website.
Larry, I've done it. Multiple times, multiple threads. It really does go fast. You only need to click the PRINT button to capture all the data. You don't need to physically print all the pages ~ just SAVE to your computer.
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Print doesn't exist for a given subject, only for specific posts.
Not true. I just "printed" this entire thread (attached as PDF to this post). It literally took me 3 seconds.
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Print doesn't exist for a given subject, only for specific posts.
Not true. I just "printed" this entire thread (attached as PDF to this post). It literally took me 3 seconds.
Perhaps you misunderstood...that was my point. I can "print" individual threads, but not entire sections of the forum. For example, if I wanted to save the "Kaiser Forum" subsection, I would need to open and "print" each and every thread with that subsection. There is no "print" option for forum subsections, nor for the forum as a whole...
Which also goes to my previous issue...currently I only own one Kaiser...will I need the HJ info later should an HJ come my way? Do I spend hours clicking through each and every thread in each and every subsection and printing them to a computer doc, just in anticipation I may or may not one day own an HJ, or a Virginian, or a Traveler?
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Chris, per some quick research, it appears the SimpleMachines forum software operates on a MySQL database. What platform does the new forum software operate on? If another flavor of SQL (they are all effectively the same, only the syntax changes) it should be reasonably easy to create a script to pull the info from the data tables of the one database, and plug that data into another. The main drawback would be assuring the new set of data tables has a corresponding table for the data from the old set of tables. Even if those corresponding tables were only used for the data migration and never used for new posts, that shouldn't be an issue.
As someone whose IT career was intimately involved with databases, I'd be happy to offer any help I can in finding a solution moving forward...
If you can send me a copy of the current MySQL data dictionary file I can begin a cursory examination of what it may entail on the read end. If moving to something like phpBB, generally that software also uses MySQL, so a script to move the data shouldn't be incredibly difficult to create...
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Print doesn't exist for a given subject, only for specific posts.
Not true. I just "printed" this entire thread (attached as PDF to this post). It literally took me 3 seconds.
Perhaps you misunderstood...that was my point. I can "print" individual threads, but not entire sections of the forum. For example, if I wanted to save the "Kaiser Forum" subsection, I would need to open and "print" each and every thread with that subsection. There is no "print" option for forum subsections, nor for the forum as a whole...
Which also goes to my previous issue...currently I only own one Kaiser...will I need the HJ info later should an HJ come my way? Do I spend hours clicking through each and every thread in each and every subsection and printing them to a computer doc, just in anticipation I may or may not one day own an HJ, or a Virginian, or a Traveler?
Barbra, not trying to beat you up. You do a fantastic job with the Bulletin, and have been most helpful when questions need answering! That said, I agree with the points that Konrad makes about printing. But, after reading Chris' post on the subject, the points are moot. The legacy data will be there for those of us who can use it.
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Print doesn't exist for a given subject, only for specific posts.
Not true. I just "printed" this entire thread (attached as PDF to this post). It literally took me 3 seconds.
...currently I only own one Kaiser...will I need the HJ info later should an HJ come my way? Do I spend hours clicking through each and every thread in each and every subsection and printing them to a computer doc, just in anticipation I may or may not one day own an HJ, or a Virginian, or a Traveler?
This method strikes me as trying beforehand to decide what pages of an encyclopedia to preserve...........where do you start........or stop?
As someone whose IT career was intimately involved with databases, I'd be happy to offer any help I can in finding a solution moving forward...
If you can send me a copy of the current MySQL data dictionary file I can begin a cursory examination of what it may entail on the read end. If moving to something like phpBB, generally that software also uses MySQL, so a script to move the data shouldn't be incredibly difficult to create...
I like this idea....a lot, and it might work.
No doubt my knowledge is pitifully dated at this point, but I have a bit of insight. Without belaboring the issue with too many details, I operated a website for a couple years quite a while back, in an extremely competitive area of interest at that time.
I utilized the.......services...... of some fellows, expert in the area of accessing & extracting pretty much anything I wanted, in a useful format, from my competitors websites. So I know it's potentially possible.
If Konrad wants to help, let him take a shot at it. Like I said in a previous thread, the main value now of this forum is the info archived here, it would be nice to see it make the jump to the new site.
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One last question I have...
The new forum will be limited to KFOCI members only, correct?
The Faceplant page is open to all correct?
Will you be limiting the Faceplant page to only those who are members?
Or will it be open to all...freely...sorta like the forum has been for lo these many years?
And if the Faceplant page will be open to all, regardless of their membership status, how do you justify closing the forum to non-members? Forgive me if I find that position somewhat hypocritical...hey...I don't give the shits, I just disturb them... :D
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At CIRCLEKF.COM we run a MYSQL database with 115 tables, 1.5 Million Records, that take up 182 Megabytes of storage. I have no interest in running a Forum and having to delete nasty posts and being a police person. Many kudos to the folks who have the patience to do that.
CIRCLEKF.com is a site dedicated to preserving Kaiser Frazer history... This seems to a preserving history thing. If this history is sent to me I will do my best to keep it alive. Historically speaking this appears to be 5 to 10 tables with a couple hundred thousand records. I will load the tables and build a couple of searches to let everyone find old posts on the topics they seek.
I would suggest you look at the statistic page you can access from the top page of this forum. The stats give you a pretty good idea about the amount of stuff we will be losing if we fail to archive it.
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At CIRCLEKF.COM we run a MYSQL database with 115 tables, 1.5 Million Records, that take up 182 Megabytes of storage. I have no interest in running a Forum and having to delete nasty posts and being a police person. Many kudos to the folks who have the patience to do that.
CIRCLEKF.com is a site dedicated to preserving Kaiser Frazer history... This seems to a preserving history thing. If this history is sent to me I will do my best to keep it alive. Historically speaking this appears to be 5 to 10 tables with a couple hundred thousand records. I will load the tables and build a couple of searches to let everyone find old posts on the topics they seek.
I would suggest you look at the statistic page you can access from the top page of this forum. The stats give you a pretty good idea about the amount of stuff we will be losing if we fail to archive it.
Another good idea!
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One last question I have...
The new forum will be limited to KFOCI members only, correct?
The Faceplant page is open to all correct?
Will you be limiting the Faceplant page to only those who are members?
Or will it be open to all...freely...sorta like the forum has been for lo these many years?
And if the Faceplant page will be open to all, regardless of their membership status, how do you justify closing the forum to non-members? Forgive me if I find that position somewhat hypocritical...hey...I don't give the shits, I just disturb them... :D
The Official Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Int'l FACEBOOK page is restricted to club members only.
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The Official Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Int'l FACEBOOK page is restricted to club members only.
Both KF Facebook groups state they're public. Once my wife logged onto her Facebook page she could access both groups, and is a member of neither, or the club.
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I've been a member of KFOCI now for 8 years. I don't have a Facebook account, nor do I want one. I use this Forum for entertainment and learning about KF. Without this Forum it will be time to sell my Manhattan and get out of the club. Thanks guys for the memories.
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Kaiser Kid, If you have been a member of the club for 8 years, how have you used the KFOCI HANDBOOK cd you got with your new member packet? It has the equivilient of over 1300 pages of information and photographs dealing with company history, cars, and other things K-F or Willys. Please post a reply on this. I want to do some market research before the next version becomes available (expected) in the first quarter of 2021.
Likewise, what do you think about content of the bulletin (intended for ads and information on recently held or upcoming club functions) as well as the Quarterly (service information, stories about members, historical stuff and a bit more)?
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I would not bother. Its a great CD but that method is outdated. Ive never looked at my CD
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I have looked at the CD, it does have great info, but like most little things, it has been misplaced. I restore carburetors on the side, and this forum has provided pictures that are not available on the CD. I have also found radio repair, body parts and other KF related items on the forum that never made it to the Bulletin. A free forum is the best "In" for our club. I started on this forum before I became a member of the club. Facebook may be a good place to have a Forum, but you need to have an account. I don't need or want Facebook knowing what I do.
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Facebook may be a good place to have a Forum, but you need to have an account. I don't need or want Facebook knowing what I do.
I agree 100%
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Both KF Facebook groups state they're public. Once my wife logged onto her Facebook page she could access both groups, and is a member of neither, or the club.
You are correct - the "Kaiser/Frazer Automobile Page" and "Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Mfg Fund" page are public pages. Anyone may join/post.
"KFOCI Official - Kaiser Frazer Owners Club International" is restricted to club members only.
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I would not bother. Its a great XD but that method is outdated. Ive nevrr looked at my CD
The updated Handbook will be available online as part of the new website.
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So now I have another question or three, for Chris and for leadership...the questions are interrogative...within the statements...
The forum software for this forum "simplemachines" is free, meaning the cost involved is in the hosting of the forum...the costs associated with having someone outside of the forum host the forum on their servers.
"simplemachines" is considered one of the leading formats for forum creation...#4 on this particular list of both paid and free forum creation software: https://websitesetup.org/best-forum-software/
My inference would be that the software running this forum will rank somewhere between 3 and 6 for any given ranking of forum creation software, depending on whether they include paid along with free software, and "simplemachines" is freeware.
1. The software is free, and backups of the database can be made.
2. There are cheaper hosting options than the one (obviously) currently being used by the club.
3. Anyone with a broadband connection and the ability to set up a server can host this forum, at minimal cost (broadband and data usage rates apply...but they could do it at a fraction of the cost of your current provider).
4. pnw_oldmags has effectively said he'd be willing to host the data, but wouldn't be willing to run the forum. I get it, he'd host the old data, no new posts, but if he'd be willing to host the bandwidth for keeping this forum alive, I'd be glad to take it over from an admin standpoint. I have extensive experience with XML, stylesheets, html and db maintenance. If not pnw, perhaps we can find another willing to host on a local server. I'd be willing to contribute to such a project, as I'm sure a few others who have weighed in would also.
5. There are several members who have already weighed in showing they have no wish or reason to start a faceplant account, for reasons I fully understand but others may not.
6. If numbers 1 - 4 (with some consideration or alterations based on possible hosting) are weighed, there is no reason this forum can not continue indefinitely...unless there is some political reason for killing it, and it seems all the world has become politicized of late, which is sad to me, because it doesn't need to be that way...
7. If I gauge the overall temper of the membership's collective gestalt correctly here...most do not want to lose this forum, believe it is fine the way it is, do not want to migrate to a new format that is unfamiliar, and particularly, do not want to lose the info that is here for the searching...
There are always other paths to attain a goal. To settle on one to the exclusion of all others, without significant regard for those other options seems to reject a rational path forward.
If we fail to rule ourselves with reason, we shall be ruled by our passions.
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Both KF Facebook groups state they're public. Once my wife logged onto her Facebook page she could access both groups, and is a member of neither, or the club.
You are correct - the "Kaiser/Frazer Automobile Page" and "Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Mfg Fund" page are public pages. Anyone may join/post.
"KFOCI Official - Kaiser Frazer Owners Club International" is restricted to club members only.
I'm a member of two but wasn't aware of the third KF Facebook group. I searched your exact title, found it, and it is indeed a private group.
Why, I don't know, it has 88 members where the other 2 open groups have 714 and 1,279.
Obviously my suggestion to merge/join/co-opt with existing groups a few months ago didn't make the cut.......so......now the new club page needs to overcome the public momentum the other two already enjoy.
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While recently talking with our Secretary she mentioned that the club was going to do everything possible to save the information in our Forum. After culling out the hundreds of superflous blogs the actual saved material would be a great idea for our Quarterly by putting all of that good material in booklet form and it would be saved like all of the Quarterlies are. I hope it can happen.
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Gordie, what you suggest has a number of questions associated with it?
1. Who will be the great decider who determines what should remain? Along with this, who's going to take the time to go through everything and take out the unimportant material?
2. Many of the good answers are along the lines of "I'll send you one". If the item is not currently available (not on repro parts list, not on NAPA list, etc) the information is useless in my opinion just like the old stuff in prior club publications that haven't been produced for many years if not several decades. I hear from people on this sort of thing telling me they can't get it locally to them.
3. Remember back in 2007 we had to dump EVERYTHING when we had to re-loacate the Forum due to hacking issue. Nobody on the Forum was concerned about it then. What's differeent?
4. I've noticed more and more of the people looking for parts/fixes do NOT feel they have to have the Factory Shop Manual or the servicing information covering their car and/or the parts lists. My 45+ years with the club indicate to me that these are MUST HAVE documents if you're going to work on one of these cars. The MoToR and Chilton books don't have the room to go into the detail and diagnostics that the factory books do. Remember, you can't plug in a diagnostic computer into an Allstate or a Frazer.
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Remember back in 2007 we had to dump EVERYTHING when we had to re-loacate the Forum due to hacking issue. Nobody on the Forum was concerned about it then. What's different?
Thirteen years of good information is one thing.
I've noticed more and more of the people looking for parts/fixes do NOT feel they have to have the Factory Shop Manual or the servicing information covering their car and/or the parts lists.
While these are great resources, and I do consider them 'Must haves', they cannot make up for the 50 years of experience I (and many others) have had working on these cars. Shop manuals cannot tell you the typical things that go wrong 15 years after the car has been out of production. They can't tell you which parts will sub for which parts etc.
There is simply no substitute for experience. I search these forums often and now that I'm in the process of restoring another car, it has been invaluable. There is no shop manual specific to an Allstate.
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Fid is true about no Allstate shop manual; Sears felt it was an unnessary expense. Their participating Auto Centers got Kaiser-Frazer service information on the Henry J coupled with Allstate Service Bulletins that K-F issued; the great majority of them were the same information as K-F issued for the HJ but went out on different letterheads. If you have the 1951-1952-1953 Henry J Shop Manual, the K-F Service Bulletin with the list of Allstate-specific part numbers and the Allstate Service Bulletins (which will be in Version 6.1 of KFOCI HANDBOOK, the first update after the new club website comes on line for general use) you should have what you need (oh yes, you also need the illustrated 1951 HJ Parts list as well as the March 1953 supplement to that list covering all 1952 and 1953 model year Henry J automobiles).
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True the HJ shop manual covers most, if not all of the Allstate maintenance/service info. I do have the Allstate parts list of what you mentioned too.
What I have found in working on this car are the quirky little things - should it have pearlite or rubber escutcheons on the door handles? Should it be Autolite or Delco Remy electrics? It would appear Autolite on this early '52, sans voltage reg, coil, battery and plugs which should be Allstate branded.
There are a number of other little things but I've found a lot of answers here and as an IT employee I am willing to donate my time to assist in moving the data if a decision is made to do so. But as you pointed out, who has the final word on that decision? Regardless, I offer my help.
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...and as an IT employee I am willing to donate my time to assist in moving the data if a decision is made to do so. But as you pointed out, who has the final word on that decision? Regardless, I offer my help.
I'd be more than happy to collaborate with you on that Fid, and I can write SQL like a badass mofo. :D
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It should not be difficult to cull out the blogs that have no value regarding information relating to the cars.
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None of these things are blogs; they are threads and each item has to be read and "Great Decider" whoever that person is (and has responsibility for result) has to decide if the item is worthwhile or not.
There is a better way to do this that does not require the Forum at all.
More on this after I discuss the idea I have with others.
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None of these things are blogs; they are threads and each item has to be read and "Great Decider" whoever that person is (and has responsibility for result) has to decide if the item is worthwhile or not.
Just pick a date, freeze the current Forum, and make it available as a searchable, read-only database.
No "Great Decider" necessary.
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Well I guess this is goodbye. There will be quite a few of us that do not transition to the new forum / website format. I no longer own any old cars and I am resisting the urge to buy another one. I enjoy coming on here. I enjoy finding interesting old KF cars in the marketplace. I know Mike does not care for me, but I think he is a good guy and I have always welcomed his criticism.
So let me say goodbye to all of my forum friends. I have learned a lot and enjoyed the past 10 + years.
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It was stated earlier in this thread that the plan is to keep the forum as READ-ONLY after the new platform goes into service.