Is it just me???

[MarkH]

These are all good arguments but why do we really need a second forum when we have a fine one that works and is easy to find.  We would only be competing with ourselves and answering the same questions over and over again.

Think of it as a merger, not competing sites. FB doesn't really have a searchable archive like this forum, and this forum isn't as well optioned for posting & replying to photos as FB.

Also, the other sites are steadily growing, 458 members today in the Aero group, 969 in the KJF group. And that's not checking membership numbers on the henry J or Darrin groups.

How many new KF club members are coming in?

I've pointed out in the past that there's no mention of "Willys" in the club name or index page on the club's website. People search the for their particular interest. Buick owners don't search for a "General Motors" club. From the Aero FB group numbers and the "Willys" forum activity here, I'd say they don't either.

[Gordie]

We have always enjoyed the Willys passenger cars from the years of Kaiser Frazer at our meets and they are welcome to join FFOCI but we don't know much about the pre WW II Willys vehicles or the military vehicles or the modern ones but do have a Willys section in our forum which seems to be pretty active and interesting.  I don't think that there is an Aero Club and no one from Willys has ever said that wanted to be a part of our club but they are certainly welcome.

[MarkH]

I really a late comer to the car club scene, and actually, this is the only one I've ever joined. Given that, I'm not qualified to comment on the pre-war, post war, or KF years of the Willys marque club(s)
I'll just stick with my personal observations of the current situation.

[thej63]

These are all good arguments but why do we really need a second forum when we have a fine one that works and is easy to find.  We would only be competing with ourselves and answering the same questions over and over again.

ooooohh man can I answer that one....because it requires a song and a dance to get into this forum. I bought a kaiser, I bought a club membership, I applied for an account on the forum. Then I waited....

I waited for a month and my forum account was not approved so I sent an email to request a status and access.....nothing. I then gave up. I figured I got info from my club packet, I have several facebook groups, I have the aaca page, it appears the club forum either isn't being used or doesn't care about approving new accounts.

6. MONTHS. LATER. I figured I'd try again because I'd still like to access the forum and nobody had ever approved my account. I managed to get the contact info of just one of the users here who managed to get in touch with someone to get my account approved. Pray tell....how many people are going to be willing to go through that to get access to a forum when all they have to do is "like" a page that's connected with an account that they're looking at every day?

Not to say that we shouldn't have a forum. It's great to have. The issue is that not only does the forum need to be actively promoted and it's existence made aware to people, but for the love of all things holy how about we grant access to people that actually want to use it?

[Corsairdeluxe]

I no longer contribute as frequently as I did formerly for fear of not being sufficiently "kaiser oriented" and called down by the "correctness" police.On the Facebook page I have yet to see a contributor belittled for lack of appropriateness.

[Gordie]

The facebook page was started by a well meaning member of KFOCI without permission of the club to use the clubs name for his private Facebook page.  The club had no control over what they did.  The official club forum has a small waiting period to insure that the applicant is not a spammer as that happened earlier and we had to shut down the whole system and start over.  The facebook page is no longer active so try using the clubs official forum as it has sections relating to most K-F-W topics.  If you can't get on after a week post here and someone will check into the problem for you.

[MarkH]

These are all good arguments but why do we really need a second forum when we have a fine one that works and is easy to find.  We would only be competing with ourselves and answering the same questions over and over again.

ooooohh man can I answer that one....................The issue is that not only does the forum need to be actively promoted and it's existence made aware to people...……………………...

This is my point exactly (several times now) in regard to Willys. Buried in the fine print of the charter is the inclusion of (I think) the Kaiser years of Willys vehicles. Well and good, except none of that will ever turn up in an internet search, and even if someone accidently stumbles across the KF page there's no mention of Willys there either. Neither the Aero cars, nor the Jeep vehicles the Kaiser brand piggy backed onto years after their own brand failed, actually, longer than their own brand vehicles were produced. There's not even a forum category for Kaiser Willys vehicles. That's like saying someone is invited to dinner...….but there's not a chair for you.

I think this is  a very good KF club, but it's obvious that even with the charter "inclusion", the club is hugely lopsided toward KF badged vehicles. The title of the club, the club's feature page, the forum, the club meet banners & souvenirs, the club meet photos of attendees cars...……….ok, points noted...…...and reality check.

I still enjoy the forum, and stayed a member when renewal time came around, as an associate member. Fortunately that was an option, I wouldn't have bought in again at full price.

No doubt some will take umbrage at this but if something I said here isn't fact, I stand to be corrected.

[Bulletin Editor]

There's not even a forum category for Kaiser Willys vehicles. That's like saying someone is invited to dinner...….but there's not a chair for you.

Please look on the main page - there are WILLYS FORUM and MODIFIED KAISER-FRAZER & WILLYS CARS categories.

[Bulletin Editor]

I think this is  a very good KF club, but it's obvious that even with the charter "inclusion", the club is hugely lopsided toward KF badged vehicles. The title of the club, the club's feature page, the forum, the club meet banners & souvenirs, the club meet photos of attendees cars...……….ok, points noted...…...and reality check.

We can't take/publish photos of Willys cars that don't come to events ... and not all Divisions/Regions take/submit photos for the Bulletin. What models have been at the National ARE in the annual calendar, but not that many come.

The Bulletin, Quarterly and Calendar covers all include the Willys logo - and Allstate too. I don't have a lot of Willys (or Allstate) artwork to use, but I do my best to include it periodically. If you have some digital copies to share, I'd be most appreciative. Service info and restoration tips for Willys vehicles have been included in the Quarterly. Please feel free to submit your tips, stories, photos, etc. We rely on member submissions, but we can't print what we don't have - and Jack can only do so much per issue.

Most of the Division/Region banners were created decades ago, and few - if any - even include Henry J or Darrin logos. If it's that important to Willys owners to have that logo included on the Division/Region banner they can offer to cover the cost of having a new one printed. 

Changing the club name to include Willys (and Allstate) would require us to file new paperwork in federal and state agencies (IRS, Incorporation documents, etc). At the very least we would need legal assistance with that, and possibly legal representation; plus it would be a lengthy process to work through the systems. And at this point, such an expenditure is not viable for the club.

I don't think anyone is taking umbrage with your comments, but please understand that the club can't always fulfill everyone's wish list for what they want from this club.

[MarkH]

Shouldn't member dues cover club banner costs?

Given the lack of participation I'm not inclined to drive long distances to "my" club meet to quite possibly be the only Willys there, I can do that several times a year just minutes from my house.

As to the "Willys & Modified" categories, I wrote: "There's not even a forum category for Kaiser Willys vehicles."   My mistake, to clarify, I meant and should have written: There's not even a forum category for post '55 Kaiser Willys vehicles.
That's the Willys production run I was referencing that exceeded actual production run years of KF badged cars.
 
If you referenced the "Willys" category to be used by all years and vehicle types of Kaiser Willys vehicles...…………….then why 5 separate categories for KF products...……….if that's your point then I think you actually just made another that supports mine.

I'm not brow beating, just sharing observations I think contribute to the lack of variety of Willys members & posters that somehow even find this site. I said it's a good KF club and I mean it, but I still stand with my observations.

This discussions about why other sites seem to be flourishing. I'm giving my viewpoint why Willys is not flourishing here.
If the club doesn't have the funds to promote the Willys marque as fully as the other KF cars, so be it. I'm still a member, just sharing my 2 cents.

[Bulletin Editor]

Shouldn't member dues cover club banner costs?

The Divisions or Regions that have banners paid for them from their own funds - gained by charging separate dues, having fund-raisers or profit from their events.

After the cost of club publications & postage, there's about $5 per paid member per year left to cover our insurance liability policy, tax prep/filing fees, supplementing Life Members (past 14 years) and other administrative costs. With dwindling memberships, and escalating costs, the club is facing a $9000 shortfall in the current fiscal year. There are no club funds to replace banners.

[Bulletin Editor]

There's not even a forum category for post '55 Kaiser Willys vehicles.

If you think there's sufficient support for adding this category, please send your request to webmaster@kfclub.com 

I can't speak for Chris, or guarantee it will happen. It may depend on available space, or require a less active/used category be "converted" to accommodate. But it starts with sending him a compelling proposal that it's in the best interest of the Forum membership.

[MarkH]

Succinctly.........….I don't think the decline of this site can be reversed at this point with a few category changes as long as it stays a stand alone entity, and continues to be search friendly to just KF cars. Momentum is definitely on the side of the currently popular sites, and those that return a hit on what folks are searching for. FB has been mentioned a lot, alternatively, take a look at the stats & category activity of Willys & Kaiser Willys products on the oldwillysforum.

They got there just by being searchable with "Willys", and having a category for searchers vehicles.

[njpatera]

Just an observation...I keep reading that someone created a page “unofficially” ...why not just create an Official page and give it a try! At this point there’s nothing to lose but potential members. I just don’t get it. Its such a simple networking tool. What am I missing? It costs nothing unless you want to boost particular posts for events to increase visibility. (I run one for my band and reach 2500+ people who have a common like for it and want us for events and communication)...I still think the Club is/has missed a golden opportunity. Again...look at the traffic on the Kaiser pages. 🤔

[Gordie]

Again our club encompasses Kaiser-Frazer-Willys passenger cars built from 1946 through the Kaiser Carabellas in 1958.  We do not include cars built after those dates.  If you want coverage on post K-F cars look to a multi make club like the AACA who includes later models.  When the club was started in 1958 the first members were Kaiser owners and one Allstate owner who banded together and started a club to try and locate parts for each other.  Willys owners had no interest in us until many years later as they had their own clubs some of which did not survive.